Help Or Advice Please

[Susan]

I have a friend (level 3 NN with BA) who has just been offered a job as a teacher in a DN (pre school room). She does not have QTS and will be paid on unqualified teacher scale. She expects to only have 24 days holiday. Is this reasonable? If she is being paid as an unqualified teacher should she have teachers pay and conditions too?

[belle06]

Hi

If your friend is been employed as a teacher and the DN are using her to fill a teachers role and expecting her to take the responsibility of a teacher then I do not think she would be wrong to expect a little more pay unfortunately if the setting where prepared or able to pay teachers pay and conditions they would probarly have employed a QTS. Most DN can not afford to pay teachers pay and conditions. This is where the problem is with having EYPS in DN settings we can not afford to pay the equivalant pay hopefuly present DN staff will train to EYPS and stay in the job because they love it and we can compromise by paying a little more than a normal DN salary.

[Guest]

Is this a private day nursery Susan? I don't think that teacher's pay and conditions will apply in that case. As Nina has said it would be doubtful if the nursery could afford a teacher's salary and as they are open for most weeks of the year then she will be expecte to work those weeks and have holidays as most employees do, which is 4 weeks if full time and 2 if part time.

Linda

[Susan]

Hi Linda, yes I understand the restraints, not sure my friend did when she applied for the job though! She answered an advert for a teacher and has been interviewed and offered the post. I think she is a bit shaken to be offered so little holiday compared to what she has been used to.

[JacquieL]

If she was employed in the state sector she would not be entitled to teachers pay but would be paid on the unqualified teachers scale- that much I do know. Don't know about holidays etc. It is very unlikely that she would be employed in the maintained sector without QTS unless she was in a subject shortage area, which is more likely in secondary where they cannot get anyone with a QTS, or have someone training 'in house' for QTS.

[Marion]

I agree with Linda there are different 'rules' for private nurseries which doesn't seem fair but there again nursery nurses in private nurseries receive different pay and conditions too.

[Sue R]

Hi,

I am employed as the 'teacher' in the Pre-school room of our nursery. My contract is part-time and is somewhat unique, being worked out for the specifics pertaining when I took on the post. I work over the full year and receive the equivalent of four weeks holiday. (as I only work 3 days each week, this is actually 12 days). I am expected to take as much of this holiday as possible outside term-time.

The teacher in our sister nursery is QTS. She works 3 days a week as well, but term-time only, thus she retains all the holidays traditional to teaching. The difference is mainly that as I am a qualified, experienced, NN I can be used in different ways to the other teacher, including acting as mananger when required.

It's probably fair to say that this kind of teaching position is very much a matter for the individuals and settings involved. Maybe your friend could have a chat with the Nursery, Susan, to see if there is room for manoeuvre?

 

Sue

[mundia]

There are plenty of teachers in Birmingham working as teachers without QTS, they only have to agree to getting QTS within 5 years (I think) (or less of overseas qualified) and they are paid on unqualified scale. We are faring better now but at one point a couple of years ago unqualified teachers outnumbered qualified teachers in our school. they are however subject to teachers conditions of service, they just get paid less. (including things like teachers pension, sickness pay etc)

[Susan]

Thanks everyone. I can give her some pointers for negotiation now if she decides to pursue this but it looks as if she will need to decide if she wishes to lose some of the conditions she has she been used to for a different status. Sue, any ideas what she might be expected to work re daily hours in this capacity?

[Sue R]

Hi Susan,

I would think she would be expected to start about 9.00, to fit in with any children in receipt of NEG and to be around while these children are. Actual hours per day should be agreed, but she should hold out for some non-contact time, or she'll be up to her ears at home, as well! I usually get 2 hours everyday (unless there's a staffing crisis). This is very helpful!

 

Sue

[Susan]

Thanks Sue.

[Chill]

As the boundaries between day nurseries and foundation units in schools become more blurred this is probably going to be a re-accurring issue. I think it is logical that as day nureseries are open 52(ish) weeks a year then this is what staff should expect to work - teacher or not. So it is then a personal decision everyone has to make when they choose which provider to work for. It could be considered divisive for a qualified teacher to ask for part year working within a full year setting. I think!!!!!