becsltd Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 We have been very frustrated recently when we have invested a lot of time and money in extending employee's professional development, only to then have them go off to children's centres because they can pay considerably more money!! I have been hearing from a number of people that they are building in a clause in to the contract or a separate contract for the student to sign to say that they will stay at the setting for 1 or 2 years otherwise they will have to pay the money invested back to the employer. What do you all think?? Have any of you set up this contract style document?? I would be interested to hear from you all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Bunny Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I don't think that putting some kind of clause in is unreasonable, but one or two years is a bit much (in my opinion) My contract when I was at nursery was for six months after the training, and I left just before the six months was up and she waived it (read - forgot!) I guess it would depend on the type of course and what the investment was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becsltd Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 I am really referring to training like NVQ 3 or 4 or even the Foundation degree / EYPS etc... I would not be concerned about general training like day to day courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Think the problem is most of this training is coming in free anyway. I personally do not think you can keep someone who wants to leave - only with more funding coming in can we retain the staff that are being trained at higher levels, we cannot get the parents to keep digging deeper to get a quality service. Why does the government not just recognise that if a nursery nurse is at level 4 0r 5 she should be paid what a Childrens Centre NN is paid through central funding. She should not have to go there to get the salary she has been studying for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becsltd Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 (edited) A lot of the training is being part funded via the transformation fund but certainly not all of it. I have just completed the EYPS and my setting was given £500 towards covering me. However, this did not cover me by any means! It obviously contributed towards it. With the NVQ3 / 4 it seems as though they get 90% covered and then either the student or the setting pay the remaining 10%. The cost of supply is obviously paid for by the setting as well and this amounts to a fair bit of money over a two year period. We are currently training up an excellent practitioner to do his NVQ3 and although he is happy with us he makes it clear that as soon as he has qualified in JUne/July he will be looking for a job in a children's centre. He came to me last week and said that he would like us to pay the 10% for his next set of college fees (£120). What would you do????!!! It is a tricky situation but with my business head on and with the large amount of additional children's centres due to open I have to make provisions for the business. Small private nurseries are struggling enough as it is. I was speaking with an agency yesterday and said that we were looking for a qualified nursery nurse. This particular agency said they had lots of unqualified but the majority of the qualified nursery nurses have specifically asked for jobs in children's centres or schools. Will we survive???? I must admit - I don't feel hopeful! Edited February 9, 2007 by becsltd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 We do have a clause for remaining for a period after training, particularly if we pay part of it, or they have to refund the full amount to us if they leave before this period, always have had, but as staff tend to stay with us have not had to use it. each one is done individually depending on the cost to us as well as the input we as a setting have to give in support of the training, as it can often need help and input from other staff or mentor. If someone makes it clear they will not stay as in above example we would feel it inappropriate to fund this and let them know they would have to find the costs themselves or other source of funding. eventually it may well balance out as there will not be enough children's centres to support everyone who is training, In our area when jobs are advertised there are certainly a lot of applicants for one job and very few posts available, the last advert brought in so many applicants that only those with lots of work experience at that level as well as the qualifications actually got though to interview. It was the experience at working at the level of qualification that most did not have so they will need to gain this somewhere Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Can i ask whether you pay your NVQ students for the day off they have to attend college? At my setting students get paid for their college days. I too feel that, due to this, they should prove some committment to the setting such as pledging to stay at least 6 months after they qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 When I trained the playgroup paid half the course fee and I got half pay on that day too, but it also infered that I would saty for a yr after training too. Ended up being there 8 yrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 If we pay them for time off we do have a contract with them tht the will stay for a agreed period or refund the mioney we paid if they wish to leave before, each one is individual to the staff involved and discussed before they start the training. Most times for NVQ they opt to not be paid for the sessions they have off for college rather than the repayment expected of them should they move on which can turn out to be considerable. Even so we do ask for a commitment after training because of the input of the other staff and setting into their training Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 That is pretty standard in this area actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria M Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 It's not only the long courses that present a problem. I've found the Senco training to be an issue too. I've experienced trouble with training a staff member to take over from me as the settings Senco. I wish to pass this area onto someone else giving me more time to develop other areas in the nursery. Its taken 3 years of trying to training a staff member, we seem to get near 1/2 way, so they can take some of the weight of me, then they say they move onto something else (this has not been childcare lately!!) so have to start again. Now on my fourth staff member. By the time I get her through the modules, it will be another year down the road and who knows what will happen! Maria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rea Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I know others who have experienced the same problem seashore, especially SENCO positions. There are always more updated courses to be done so you really need someone who will stay. I dont think I've said hello either so, welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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