Guest Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 HIYA!!!!!!! I'm currently studying for a level 3 dce. I've been looking for jobs in the local rag and when i see them advertised all they seem to ask for is NVQ Level three Early Years & Education or Btec. I was advised, rightly or wrongly, that an NVQ 3 is a more senior qualification to the DCE3. This doesn't seem right to me as the NVQ3 only takes 12-15 months and one day in college, one in placement, whereas my DCE takes 2 years ,2 days placement and 3 days college a week, and is followed by an exam. Also what do any employers out there think about it, who would you be most likely to employ, NVQ3, BTec3 or DCE3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hi you ought to read all our other messages on qualifications........ sorry but all this is a really sore point at the minute from an OLD NNEB who supervises a pre school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 Hi Dcechez and all, As Hali says, look at other posts on qualifications. Employers, if they have any sense, must look at experience as well as qualifications. This is my personal opinion. I am relatively new to formal EY training, and what I am doing is probably one of the only ways forward for me. However, some of the EY professionals who have been doing our job, and better, for many years are being told that their qualifications are no longer valid, even though they have kept themselves up-to-date. The EY sector is in danger of losing its best asset if there is no way for 'qualified' and experienced practitioners to be recognised. The EY sector could not function if it was without these people. Good luck in your course, Diane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi Dcechez - There's been a lot of confusion generally about qualifications (not caused by practitioners it has to be said, but by the various involved bodies - Ofsted, QCA, CACHE etc), and consequently, as Hali and Diane have mentioned, lots of discussions. Here's a link through to a couple of recent ones: NNEBs et al Foundation Degrees and other qualifications More stuff! If you want to see more, just do a search which looks at all categories with Any Date selected, for qualifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hi All Can I just say something? I do realise this is a highly emotive issue and I don't want to upset anybody; but I have seen a couple of references now to the DPP being limited to 1day in college and some time within a group as a placement. Although this is the MINIMUM requirement, I would like to add that I personally have spent around a further 10+ hours per week reading, researching and generally working on my assignment - in fact I spent all day Saturday and most of Sunday on it this week (around 20hours); I do this because I find the subject fascinating and want to do as well as I can. All I am saying is, can you give some credance to the fact that to pass a DPP you need to put in a lot more than a day per week? Regards Sandra (aka hardworking DPP student). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I can see that you are working hard towards your DPP putting in extra time etc etc , good luck with it all, how would you then feel after putting in all that time and effort being told that it is no longer a valid qualification and that you had to do it all again ??? No one is putting the DPP down I just feel that all people with old style qualifications worked very hard for them and often have years of experience to go with it. To then be told that it was all a waste of time and needs to be repeated is an insult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I agree this is an emotive issue and I hope none of my postings have hinted at putting the DPP (or any other qualification) down. I have no doubt whatsoever that those of us who are currently studying are putting in immense effort to do as well as possible. However, I personally feel that when the formal study stops and the qualification is recieved it does not mean our learning stops. The essays and college days may be gone but we continue to learn day after day by being hands on in whatever setting we choose to work. There is no certificate for this area of our learning ( experience, what use is that seems to be the trend!)and as the years pass we are suddenly told it counts for nothing and to add insult to injury the "official qualification" is worthless too. Mixed messages seem to be sent out which just results in confusion. I was talking to a student due to finish NVQ 3 this year. A super student and a natural with the children. In years to come I can see her as a supervisor and doing a fantastic job, BUT she has been told that her level 3 means she can work as a supervisor and sees her certificate as a ticket to such a position as soon as she qualifies. I know the girl well and cannot fault her but as an employer I would not consider her for a supervisor position at the age of 19 ( and it that is classed as ageism then I am sorry!!!) that sort of takes this full circle back to the qualification AND experience debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 I wholeheartedly agree Geraldine. Although i am a mature student who has three children of her own, i feel there is so much more to be said for experience in the field of child care. I am very confident with the children, even though some other students who attend the same placement as i don't seem to have a clue as to how to play with the child and extend their learning at the same time. I find the attitude that the level 3 is a passport to a supervisors job a very, should i say, confident one, as in my placement i would say that the level 2 CPP member of staff has a better educational input with the children than the level3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Hello all, We're back to the ongoing EY debate: experience versus qualifications. As I see it, neither can stand alone. Even when (if?) I get my level 4 at the end of this year, I am sure I cannot do a 'leader' role. I have only 5 years experience. However, I am a parent, and I do have empathy with other parents. This is something that a 19-year-old will not have. They will have different skills. But, no matter what her qualifications, experienced early years workers may not accept a supervisor who is 30 years younger. I am sensible, I think, but I would find it difficult. I, too, am ageist. I wish I wasn't. In any situation, employers need to look at a balance: skills must be the first priority, but backed up by experience and qualifications. Some skills cannot be taught: some do not even come from experience, they are just inherent. The 19-year-old obviously has inherent skills. I think that EY education has room for everyone who is committed: qualification is not the answer to everything. SureStart, good for them (because awareness is now increased), has put the emphasis on formal qualifications. This has made lots of us take a step back and look at waht we are doing (and indeed, why we are doing it). That is not to say that workers with no intention of gaining formal qualifications are any less valuable. This becomes a management issue - organising a setting so that children benefit from everyone who has something to offer. The main problem is that everyone feels threatened (by routes they don't want to go down, by OFSTED, by peers). My overall feeling is that, since EY education has become more regulated, and since EY now encopasses such a broad range of settings, it is up to us (who know how to do it), to take control. We all know our aims and objectives and how we intend to get there (for the children and for ourselves). I think we work together better than many other professions. This must be the key to the future for us and the children we work with. And so endeth ....... Diane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Hi Dcechez, The QCA states that for these jobs: * nursery supervisor * preschool, creche, or playgroup leader * toy library leader * SEN supporter * Nursery nurse, nanny or childminder the following vocationally- related qualifications are all equal: * Level 3 Diploma in Childcare and Education (CACHE) * Level 3 Certificate in Childminding Practice (CACHE) * Level 3 Certificate of Professional Development in Work with Children and Young People (CACHE) * Level 3 DPP (CACHE) * Level 3 BTEC National Certificate in Early Years (EDEXCEL) * Level 3 BTEC National Diploma in Early Years (EDEXCEL) * Level 3 Diploma in Early Years Practice (CACHE) * Level 3 BTEC National Award in Early Years (EDEXCEL) and the following occupational qualification is equal to the above: * NVQ level 3 in Early Years Care and Education (awarded by City and Guilds, CACHE, Edexcel, and the OU) Phew! I had no idea until now that there were SO many different qualifications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Thanks for that Helen. I just wanted to clarify that i was on the right course. Anyway too late now even if i wasn't, as i near the end of my first year already. I can hardly believe i've been there nearly a year, doesn't time fly when you're having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 It's clear that for many of you qualifications has been a sore point myself included. not so long ago the NNEB was regarded as the best childcare qualification to have and many employers considered it superior to the NVQ and the Btec I glad to see that the qualifications playing field has evened out a little I can sympathise with those that have studied two years and watch someone else gain the same level of qualification in just 12 months but in real terms the NNED/DCE/Btec is equivalent to the NVQ 2+3 I qualified in 96 with a DPP and already I am out of date I went to one local college tutor who was an NNEB and she was quite rude to me about the DPP her word " I dont know how you can possibly be considered level 3 having only done 1 day a week!" I was so angry with that statement "only one day a week" I returned the next week with the three lever arch files of work and assignments and showed her what I had managed in "just one day a week!" she then said " Ive checked and your just a level 2!" unfortunately she was right because my DPP was awarded by PLA and not cache! That was a red flag to a bull! I went to another local college to sign up on the NVQ 3 but they encouraged me to sign up on the the HND. two years later I am just about to complete the HND! I am so glad I didnt believe the tutor who said that I couldnt of possible gained the same knowledge as an NNEB in one day a week! As Sandra has said the amount of extra hours spent each day reading and researching isnt counted! people just see how many days a week Both the DPP and the NVQ level 3 were not designed for the 16 year old just left school but the mature student with some prior EY experience and this is at time forgotten when people say "its only one day a week" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Hi again all - especially Hotgoss. I know exactly how you feel about being told the qualification you hold may no longer be valid - I am working with three people in the same position (one of whom has 16years experience; another 12years as leader!!). It is an absolute outrage - nobody would dare say a driving licence, or Degree was not valid no longer HOW old it was!!!! My only point, as backed up nicely by Alison; was that some of us do put it a lot more time and effort than the day in the classroom and we'd like that to be recognised by those full-time students on other courses. I'd also like to add, that not all of us feel this is a quick route to becoming Supervisor - Ours has just resigned, and I wouldn't want her job for all the tea in China... Since I am working toward the DPP I still have a valid interest in this subject - who knows if we too will be told our qualification is no longer acceptable? This is something that needs to be discussed on a much larger scale than this fantastic site. On the subject of the 19year old DPP student - I am studying with one (I think she's 20) who, I am sure, is destined for great things. Over the years she will gain some experience and probably have children of her own. I agree that some people may not enjoy working for somebody so young, but good for her for trying. I do hope we get some solution to this ridiculous issue before too long - the next problem our setting has is finding out which course they actually need to take to "top up" and where its available... Keep smiling everybody and HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I don't know if you all read the other topics ( I'm sure you do cos you're all probably addicted to this site just like me !!!!!!!!!!!! ) but as you can imagine the subject of qualifications is getting quite interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!! I recently read somewhere that the NNEB was equivalent to 2 A levels. Is there any other subject where they suddenly say the A levels are no longer recognised or that they are now only worth GCSE's ???? of course not. I am urging everyone to make a stand and fax their local MP's about the fact that one by one our old style qualifications are not being recognised or that we have to retrain. If they suddenly discover a new mathematical forumlae do all those people with maths A levels have to re do them I THINK NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!please please please fax your local MPs on www.faxyourmp.com and tell him/ her that the situation is all wrong. I am posting this on other websites and we need as much support as we can. People are also mentioning the sheer volume of paperwork now involved with the job and how often it is doing more harm than good. We need to unite and do something about this rediculous situation , we have stayed quiet for too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 As hotgrass has said fax ur Mp ..i did and got reply saying they were going to contact the education dept. and get an answer for me. Please help by getting in contact with ur local Mp. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Have a look at this and tell me what you think I have to wait 7 days before I can get a guest book up and running but I'm working on it www.freewebs.com/fedupnnebs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Dear Hotgoss Nicely put - it might well do the trick. I shall print it off for the other staff in my group that are affected (who are also technophobes!); and get them to join the race. Once you've sorted this out, perhaps you could lead the fight to get us decent wages?! Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Dear Hotgoss I have used the link on your site to send a fax to my MP - although I am personally not affected (yet), as I said earlier, the staff in my group are - I can at least start the fight on their behalf... Bye for now and good luck with the campaign. Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Right next question . What do you think about printing the page off my website and sending it round to all your local pre-schools. Would anyone be prepared to do this ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I think your web page is great. I'm sure any NNEB regardless of the age of qualification, would be willing to stand up and support this cause. I qualified in '92 but who knows in a few years time they may be saying the same thing to all those who qualified pre 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 So would you be prepared to post my web page round to your local pre-schools etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Yes I would, we have a cluster group meeting of all the early years settings in our areas, would be happy to pass it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 excellent thank you . when is your next meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Dear Hotgoss (and interested others!) I faxed my MP this morning and have already received a reply!!! It is a standard "looking into it" reply, but I am impressed - my husband tells me there is value in having an opposition MP at times like this. I would be happy to print off your webpage and circulate it via my college group (who represent 10 settings) and my local Cluster (although we are not due to meet again until after Easter). I could certainly circulate it to one of our more vocal Cluster members who I believe is a sufferer of this situation. When I printed it off for myself (and my setting), some of the text was missing on the right hand side of the page - any advice for preventing this? Regards Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Try printing it out in landscape rather than portrait. I've just done it and it worked ok in landscape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Getting a bit upset now , doing all this work and I haven't heard from my MP yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 hi Hotgrass email them again!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rhodessj Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Also contact the webmaster at Faxyourmp.com - they are monitoring responsiveness of MPs and may take up the challenge that yours has failed to respond... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Hi Hotgrass you like me are sooooo passionate about this (did you get an email back when you contacted your mp first? if so get onto them again). i will also print out web page and circulateb as much as i can. keep smiling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 You will probably need to print it out in landscape, thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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