Males In Pre School

[Guest]

Hi all,

had a run in with a parent last week of term about a student placement we had.

I take students from the upper school in which we are based and usually they are ok. I sometimes have a few who prefer to play on their mobile phone ( which they always deny having) or do their nails but overall we have students who are interested in children.

The last student I had was a lad who was 15yrs. He actually wanted a placement in engineering but also said he would like some hands on experience. So they put him with us.

HE WAS FANTASTIC.

He was by far the best sudent placement I have had. He read his student handbook cover to cover, read the health and safety, policies and procedures etc, completed observations, role played, played football, hoola hooped, juggeled, had a tea party, everything the children asked.

BUT one parent complained that we had a boy in the setting and what were his intentions towards the children.

Can you believe it. I explained how wonderful he was and that his only intentions were to have fun, play and learn about the development of children.

I wondered about this mum b4 as she made a comment about a father coming in do to parent help.

I am not sure how it will go as we have now broken up, but she did ask me would I have another boy placement and I said yes.

I am concerned as to why she is concerned and am not sure whether she will be back in sept.

 

Net x

[Sue R]

Grrr!

 

Strikes me she is typical of one of the reasons it's so hard to attract and keep males in the Early Years. To say she's prejudiced is an understatement and if she comes back in September, making similar remarks, refer her to your Equal Opps/Inclusion policy. As an unvetted individual he would have been accompanied at all times, and any future volunteers/ helpers or male members of staff will continue to be welcome - vetting will occur automatically in a more long term arrangement, won't it - she should be told so!

 

I'm not so sure I'd want her involved, with those attitudes! What must her children be exposed to? But then, I suppose the challenge here is to re-educate her

 

Sue

[hali]

We had a Male student ONCE, wanted to be a pianist but the kids loved him and he was fantastic!!!!

[Guest sqpeg]

Hello

we have just completed our first (trial) holiday club for children with ASD and we had a male student volunteer. He was great, really bought a sense of fun and darring do, to the children's play.

sqpeg

[Guest]

Prejudice is formed from ignorance or prior experience. I wouldn't worry whether she is coming back in September ( because worrying can't achieve anything at the present time). If she does return and appears unsatisfied or uncomfortable about having males in the setting then yes, this needs to be addressed. I would ask what her actual fears are, and what these fears are based upon. Then take it from there. The best way to challenge prejudism is through role modelling appropriatte attutudes and challenging inappropriatte ones, however, the challenging method has to be in consideration of what method will work best - ie: more information - verbally and through policies and other media, a straight forward "we do not tolerate racism, sexism, ageism, etc" and an assertive explanation of the consequences to anyone showing such prejudice.

Do your policies state what you would do in the event of facing prejudist behaviour?, It may say it will be challenged, but what will you do if challenging it doesn't stop the prejudist behaviour?

 

Some things to think about, hopefully her reactions are due to ignorance, thus fear, rather than outright informed prejudice because ignorance can be changed more easily than the latter attitude.

 

I have previously mentioned that a male colleague of mine who has worked in early years for about 3 years faced most of his prejudice from people within the sector rather than from parents, even being asked if he was in the right venue when he attended a SENCO training day There are many who have a lot to learn.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I have had a boy student he was placed with us because no-one else would have him. I had him for 2 years he was on report most of the time at school for bad behaviour and language but never once did anything wrong with us. he was brilliant with the children and loved the attention that we gave him because he was so good. but then i had another boy who only lasted 2 weeks cos he didn't like do anything and when he was told to do something by me he said who did I think I was!!!!! needles to say I told him. but I've just had a man come for an interview for a job and I asked all the mothers on their views of men in pre-schools and if a man had to take their children to the toilet how would they feel. most of them said they would be quite happy but some of the ones with girls said they wondered what their husbands would say about it. We have 1 young man in our area and he is lovely we've even asked about sharing him around to work in the groups Wish we could get a few more, it is needed good men as role models are far and few between in my group of parents.

[Guest]

I have had a boy student he was placed with us because no-one else would have him. I had him for 2 years he was on report most of the time at school for bad behaviour and language but never once did anything wrong with us. he was brilliant with the children and loved the attention that we gave him because he was so good. but then i had another boy who only lasted 2 weeks cos he didn't like do anything and when he was told to do something by me he said who did I think I was!!!!! needles to say I told him. but I've just had a man come for an interview for a job and I asked all the mothers on their views of men in pre-schools and if a man had to take their children to the toilet how would they feel. most of them said they would be quite happy but some of the ones with girls said they wondered what their husbands would say about it. We have 1 young man in our area and he is lovely we've even asked about sharing him around to work in the groups Wish we could get a few more, it is needed good men as role models are far and few between in my group of parents.

 

 

Not wanting to offend but the fact that you asked all the parents how they felt about a male interviewee looking after their children panders to the perceived view that employing a male may offend someone.

To ensure equality of employment practice you should either not ask the parents that question or ask the parents the same question about every single person, male or female that you interview / consider for employment. Also if asking parents this question, you should also make transparently clear how much weight you would put on their responses in your decision about who to employ, and justify that the consideration is not due to gender issues or any other prejudice. Be careful, when carrying out the employment process, this process must be equal to all applicants.

 

Peggy

[Beau]

My eldest daughter had a male teacher when she was in Yr1 and many of the parents were horrified, but he turned out to be the best teacher my daughter had. She is now 19 and remembers her time with him fondly. As Peggy says, don't worry about it yet but at least now you are forewarned and have a chance to gather your thoughts.

[Rea]

Thats so sad that in these days of equality a man is deemed to be unfit purely because of his gender. If I was to work in an all make environment I wouldnt want to hear, 'Dont let her see the calenders in the work shop', 'Dont let her talk to the important customers', 'She's a woman so she'll change her mind/need time off because of the kids/periods/hair dressers'. I've heard it said that some men are advised to have a cushion on their lap if a child wants to sit on them, how unequal is that. Men are needed in the early years and out dated biggotry needs to be stamped out. Inequality makes me so mad

[Guest]

Hi, we have found that the male students are so popular with the children, the boys attach them selves and flock around the student. The lad we had was great, he was placed with us as a last resort through the school and when he left he was really gutted and wanted to stay!! The children looked at him and I guess saw a big brother type relationship grow. This really was a great addition to the group!

I would explore the parents reasons for reacting so badly, there may be a reason behind it that is scary for the parent to cope with. If this is the case you may not get an answer and you will have to tread carefully so as you don't upset things anymore for the parent . We have to take onboard the parents comments even if they are uncalled for and address them by showing the positives and benifits for the group. Well done for challenging the parent this is hard as every one wants things to run smoothly and upsets can have such an effect on every one. Hopefully you've done the hard bit now and it's over to the parent. Think of all the children whom enjoy the male company and input you have provided then balance this up with the past events.... !

[Guest]

Same here. Any male students we have had have been by far the most popular with the children. Think we have had 3 to date. Maybe it's the novelty factor, but the boys seem to look up to them and have far more contact with them than with the female students. And vice versa I suppose, the girls seem to flock to the female students. I only wish the ratio for students was 50/50 and all the children would benefit.

 

I would remind any parent who had such concerns that we operate an equlaity and inclusion policy and that everyone is treated equally. Obviously I would be open to any discussion she may wish to have. I assume that she may have a unrelated reason as to why she feels this way. If not, she may just be bitter and twisted lol.

[Guest]

not offended Peggy had't thought of it from that side. We live in a very white middle class area where parents are very quick to comment on anything that is different. it's only in the last few years that we have had men teachers in our First/infants schools. I have a member of staff from Sudan and as you say I didn't ask what the parents thought about her working with us. although I did hear one or two rumbles from parents asking each other if she was allowed to work with their children. I think I asked more for the fact of wanting to hear peoples views rather than tacking them into consideration. I was actually going to employing him if he came back because he was a very nice person but unfortunately he took a job with a full time day nursery who could offer him more hours. I'm more the one to go against what everyone thinks rather than with it I'm afraid so it was more to find out what troubles might lay ahead when I did employ him not to not employ him. but not relevant now any way more's the pity.

[Guest]

not offended Peggy had't thought of it from that side. We live in a very white middle class area where parents are very quick to comment on anything that is different. it's only in the last few years that we have had men teachers in our First/infants schools. I have a member of staff from Sudan and as you say I didn't ask what the parents thought about her working with us. although I did hear one or two rumbles from parents asking each other if she was allowed to work with their children. I think I asked more for the fact of wanting to hear peoples views rather than tacking them into consideration. I was actually going to employing him if he came back because he was a very nice person but unfortunately he took a job with a full time day nursery who could offer him more hours. I'm more the one to go against what everyone thinks rather than with it I'm afraid so it was more to find out what troubles might lay ahead when I did employ him not to not employ him. but not relevant now any way more's the pity.

 

 

A similar recruitment thing happened to me, I offered a male candidate the job only to be turned down because when his current employer found out he was applying else where she offered him promotion and a rise. . Good for him but not for me, it seems that once you've got a good man, don't let him go.

 

Peggy

 

A similar recruitment thing happened to me, I offered a male candidate the job only to be turned down because when his current employer found out he was applying else where she offered him promotion and a rise. . Good for him but not for me, it seems that once you've got a good man, don't let him go.

 

Peggy

 

 

just remembered, whilst interviewing this man I asked what did he have to offer that made him better than other candidates ( same question for all candidates) He said " well, I am a man" and I said "and...."

I nearly said, well I have 3 more male candidates so gender alone doesn't make you better...but I didn't. I asked him to expand on his answer and tell me about specific skills knowledge etc.

[Guest]

Well I am a male and I have been working with young children for about 8 years. I did experience some similar attitudes initialy. But nowadays I don't really feel it. There are some parents/ children that I find it harder to form a relationship with and for some of them it may be related to my gender, but I really don't see it that way. I now work in an Early Years unit with a team that has 2 (out of 4) male teachers and recentlly one male teaching assitant. I think that having more men just means we have a wider range of different personalities and strenghts. I don't beleive in natural male and female characterists, but we are all poducts of our upbringing both adults and children.

 

The best thing about having men working in the early years is that it challenges social pejudices and gives the children in our care the oppportunity to learn of a different way. E.g. The boy who enjoys playing with a male practitioner in the home corner.

 

 

I think we still have a real problem with sexism in our society. It affects women much more than men. But the main seat of this problem is the over emphasis on the difference between men and women. I know as practioners we need to be aware of some of the differences in boys and girls, but the stereotypes and prejudices they grow up with ( Boys don't like pink, Girls don't like football etc.) need to be challenged.

[Guest]

Hear, Hear, Tim

 

I notice you've made 3 posts and I don't think I've welcomed you to the forum before- so, welcome, nice to have you on board

 

Peggy

[Marion]

I bet the same parent wouldnt have a problem if a male headteacher was spending time with the children! Some people just dont think before they complain.

[Guest]

At the baby unit I worked in (I know I've said this beofre but it really was the best setting I've ever worked in!) my cousin who is male (17 years) came in one day to lend a hand.

 

He was absolutely brilliant with the children and even remembered me boring my family with the 'you can't say or do this, but this is ok' stories! I was so impressed and so proud of him. The children loved him and rarely came to any of us girls, preferring to spend time with my cousin. He is not a very good reader, and lacks confidence somewhat, but he rolloed his sleeves up and played with them, read them stories and joined in during circle time with the bigger children.

 

I was concerned how some parents would respond to a male in the setting, especially with some views that parents have and all in all, the response was fantastic. One parent even went as far to say that her 2 year old kept talking about my cousin at home and she felt that he was looking forward to seeing him again. The response was brilliant and my cousin returned a few times to join in, or wash up when we were short staffed! He lives quite far away, so I was even more touched when he made special visits to see us!

 

Before going off to college to study computers, he briefly considered entering childcare and asked my opinions etc. Now, a year later, he hates computers and is thinking of returning to study towards a Level 2 qualification!

[Guest]

Wow,

Hi all, been on hols and just returned to update myself on things.

Thank you for all your views, i never thought about equal ops policy and i don't think I have anything in there about male students/employees.

In bedford I only know of 1 pre school leader who is male but they are few and far between.

I agree we need more men in childcare but with the preduces of so many people I don't think we will.

But a very good point was made by Marion, we wouldn't think twice about a male headteacher.

 

I have quite a quite a few single parent families with fathers who are completely absent at my setting and feel that these children would benefit so much from a positive male role model.

 

I am planning to speak to the work experience organiser at the upper school and ask her to try and encourage more boys as the success of my male student was fab.

 

Thank you all again

And hi and welcome tim.

 

Net x

[Susan]

Hi and welcome also to sqpeg, whose first post slipped by unnoticed there. Hope that will be the first post of many!

I think Ive welcomed Tim in before but if not, welcome Tim!

[Guest]

I know this was ages ago but... my husband is a registered childminder and also works at the pre-school I run. We have had nothing but praise from parents. I totally agree with Peggy that asking how parents feel about it implies they should have concerns.

In terms of childminding we care for a couple of single parent families and the mums love that their children have a regular male role model.

As far as toileting goes, women are just as likely to abuse children sexually - a fact women like to forget.

Men seem to play in a more inventive way with construction etc in my experience and that can only help children!

[Guest]

Because I run the preschool business, my husband is the full time,'main carer' for all our Foster children.

However, our 'safe care' policy is still biased against male carers. For example, The procedures we have to follow to protect ourselves against allegations of abuse are mainly directed at the male carer in the home. He is only able to do certain 'caring' under my 'female' supervision, such as 'bathing', 'bedtime stories' etc.

I think people need to understand the broader subject of the term 'abuse', in my experience females' emotional, neglect, and physical abuse towards children is just as prevalent as male sexual abuse towards children, yet this is not portrayed as 'news worthy' in the media, thus parents fears are mainly aimed against men.

We should also remember that abuse is mainly a 'power' thing, and one of our most important roles is to enable children to have the confidence, self esteem, and skills to voice their rights, to say NO, to value their own bodies and space and to empower them to speak out against these people who are actually weak and powerless.

They need to know that male carers are good role models and by employing both genders children will be better equipped to learn what is right or wrong behaviour towards them.

If we show fear of the consequences of employing male carers what lessons are we teaching children? We may be subconsciously teaching them that there is no suspicion towards female adults but all male adults must be treated with suspicion. This cannot be right. Sadly it has come to the point that fathers even fear bathing their own daughters. Both father and child lose so much from this, a developmentally important natural caring, bonding, nurturing experience.

If we let the 'bad' people in our society invluence our normal everyday lifes to this extent then in a way they have enforced their 'power' to the detriment of the innocent.

Sorry got on my soapbox again. I just feel sad for the loss of so many experiences that children are missing out on ( and parents) because of the 'no risk' wrap them up in cotton wool' 'safe care' procedures we are all moving towards. We need to address the balance by giving the power back to children. Their right to freedom from abuse but just as importantly their right to experience the innocent, fulfilling relationships they can share with both adult genders.

 

Peggy

[Verona]

We have a young boy student starting with us on Thursday, for a year. He is at College and will be doing one week with us and the other at college. He visited the Pre-school for a few mornings last term just to introduce himself and for the induction. I was so pleased to see that he used his own initiative (we've had lots of students that don't), and he was surrounded by children whenever I looked across at him. The children enjoyed him being there and according to a few parents, their children couldn't stop talking about him when they got home.

I introduced him to some of the parents as they came in last term and no-one has voiced anything about a male at Pre-school. He was very chatty to the children as they came in and spoke confidently to the parents, so I don't anticipate any problems. (fingers crossed and touch wood)!!!

 

Sue J

[Guest]

This is a really interesting thread, not least because so many of you call your male students 'boys'. How old are they exactly?

 

We have two male students at the moment. Both are absolutely fantastic and the children simple love them to bits. We had another male student for the summer term and we were all so sad to see him go.

 

I can honestly say that we have never had anything negative said to us by any of our parents about having male students.

 

As for toileting etc, if you come to work in our nursery you muck in. There is no heirarchy (?sp) everyone does what needs doing.

 

Fluff x

[Sue R]

I am totally in your gang, guys in Nursery are GREAT! But was once (shudder at memory, an AWFUL experience) employed in a nursery where males were welcome, but really it was just lip service. Policy dictated that they could never be left alone with children, (whatever their qualification or clearance!) and never changed nappies or took children to the toilet. The men I met in that scenario were smug about their 'special' status and didn't seem bothered. I was aghast! What price inclusive practice, forging a career ??!

 

Sue