Query Re: Rent

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

I would like to ask what level your rent is set at if you run a setting from a community hall such as Scouts, Community centre, church etc.

 

The reason I ask is that I rent from a scout group, 2 years ago the treasurer said that he would have to increase my rent by 10%. I said that such a big rise was unaffordable, so he said he would raise it 5% each year over the next 2 yrs, which brings us to now.

anyway, he has now said that he is raising my rent 5% every year. ( this was not what we initially agreed). I currently pay £5.30 per hour which = £37.12 per day, which = £7238.40 per year ( 39 wk yr, 10 sessions per week). This is for a shared venue where furniture is put away each day.

 

I have started negotiations for next years rent and he has said he doesn't really know what the 'going rate' is. My sustainability is under threat and so any reduction or at least stopping increases will obviously help.

 

I know that we are their main income, the scouts, guides, beavers etc are charged £4 per month, ie: £1 per session , I think this is unfair that it is my rent that pays for most of the upkeep of the building, ( especially as it is not particularly kept in that good an order, but that's a different issue)however, I do appreciatte that it is a scout hall and therefore there for the main purpose of scouts etc and not preschool.

 

So, there's my background, I would appreciatte finding out what other settings in a similar situation are charged for rent. Thanks.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Hi Peggy

 

Well I reckon you are going to open the floodgates with this query !!!!!! It's a very sore subject especially for those of us in church halls etc. that have to clear away every day.

 

But for your info so that you can make a comparison:

 

* Our rent is going up to £15 per session from Sept. 1st - we are open 5 mornings per week - 2.5 hours

 

* We are using the hall from 7.30 a.m. (someone goes in to set up) until 12.45 p.m.

 

*We are the church hall's main income and apparently they use that money to pay for a manager to oversee the place and to do odd jobs.

 

* Included in the cost are the paper towels/loo roll etc of which we get through loads - I don't think they've realised that yet, but it is extremely generous of them and I am keeping very quiet about it!

 

*Have on-going issues with them about the cleaning/cutting the grass/risk assessments/storage space etc. etc.

 

*The Hall Centre Manangement Committee consider us as a business - albeit a church group - as against the scouts, brownies, guides etc. who are all completely voluntary & can't pay the rate that we do.

 

So, on paper it looks like we get a very good deal, but in reality, the place is run by a dragon who does 'spot' checks after we've left to make sure we have cleaned it properly and that there isn't a grain of sand to be seen.

 

I could go on for hours about the on-going issues, but will leave it at that, please ask me if there's anything else you need to know. I would be interested to know what time you allow for setting up, putting away etc.

 

Good luck!

[Guest]

We too are in a church hall and our rent is going up to £20.00 per session in September, we can get in at 8.00, although because I clean the hall etc. I'm usually there about 7.30ish.

On Tuesday and Thursday we have to be out by 12.00p.m. (finish session at 11.40), so it is a nightmare packing away.

We have to supply our own paper towels, which is usually around £8.00 or £9.00 per week. I don't know how long you will get away with it Janice! but saying nothing is best

The weekly total will be £160.00 just for rent, so it is a big chunk. We have all the usually issues with storage etc. (although I must say they have been really good- have taken over the place really, but still no where near enough storage).

Like you, we are the main source of income for the church and without us, I don't think it could survive, they certainly couldn't get other users in there to cover our hours. They already have 2 weight watcher sessions, guides, brownies and other church events.

We also supply all our own disinfectant, washing up liquid, tea towels, bleach, kitchen towels etc. Costs a fortune!!

It does seem unfair when other groups pay less, your groups Peggy seem to be getting a really good deal - seems like pre-school is subsidising them! I agree that it is a scout hut, but it does seem unfair - if you were offered a fantastic new building (dreaming again!) they would certainly miss you!!!

[hali]

think ours is about £8 per hour, we get very cross as they only charge other users like brownies as a donation each year....

[Guest]

Our rent is £15 per session and has never had an increase since we opened in 1996!!!

We arrive at whatever time is convenient to us to set up (no restrictions) and leave at 1.00pm for 3 days and 3.30pm on 2 days.

We book the facilities through the church secretary, so if we want to use another room, we book it but in the knowledge that the church has priority over bookings.

We used to provide our own paper towels, liquid soap etc. but the church hall and other rooms including toilet / kitchen facilities were overhauled in 2001 and since then we were asked to move rooms (which we didn't realise at the time but it has worked to our advantage ) - had a storage cupboard made for us (great - but never as big as you would want) - the original plans were excellent - a huge cupboard, but the church badminton group (average age 70+) had the final say over how much 'sitting' space they needed so our cupboard was reduced to make them an area to rest in?),

the church also arranged for us to have a door to the garden put in (at our request) whilst they were having so much work done - a real bonus.

We have used the churches paper towels / soap etc. - like Janice, I don't think they realise - or if they do they haven't said anything about not using their supplies.

There is a lady from the church who maintains the garden - and we try as much as possible to keep her happy - as she mows our grass and has put interesting ornaments in it for us to look at. Sometimes we do 'cross' each other, but it would be in our best interests not to (if you know what I mean?!) She also looks after the Kitchen, where she becomes a different personality - quite a formidable character, as I think she sees this part of the building her own - this does throw up some problems occasionally - especially as every other week the church has a luncheon club for over 60's - fighting for sinks, work tops and fridge space can be good exercise for self control!!

We too are the main income, put away after every session, and the only group who cleans up properly after use - and I know we have been on a really good deal, but have heard rumours that we might be in for a rent increase soon.

Peggy - how do you manage to stay afloat? you've made me appreciate what we have.

[Guest]

Hi Peggy,

I am also in a church hall, it is huge and they have provided storage for us and created shelving. We provide all our own paper towels etc. We can now leave out our equipment on mondays & tuesdays as a group cancelled their tuesday night booking. We pay ten pounds for the two & a half hour session. We can get in at what ever time we like, this combined with being able to leave out equipment gives us time for paper work etc. The rent increases to thirteen pounds per session through the winter to help towards the heating. Our rent is at a reduced rate as we are the main users and a couple of years ago we where struggling for children and we spoke to the church leaders whom reduced the rent for us I think it would only be correct to inform them that our numbers are greatly incresased and go back to paying the full rent of thirteen pounds in the summer and sixteen pounds in the winter, Hmm.. I must remember to tell them!

[bubblejack]

I also use a church hall and pay £8 per hour. All groups using the hall are allowed set up times free of charge. I am registered for 26 children and am usually full at each session. I open for 8 sessions.

The church only provide toilet rolls and I can use the cleaners cleaning materials if I want to. We mostly use our own things though. I am able to stay afloat because I am full at each session but if the situation changed I would have to reduce sessions or have minimum staff.i.e. 1 to 8 children. I don't have many non-funded children as their fees are lower than the funded rate. As i have been in operation for 27 years parents are willing to wait till their children are 3.

I am now invited to go to church committee meetings if they concern changes that I request or if the church want my opinion on any renovations that they are planning.I asked for some blinds the other day ands immediately they arranged for a quote. I find them very obliging and understanding. They let me have a very large area for storage, 2 cupboards and a stage area together with a corner of the room where I stack my tables chairs and large physical equipment. Mostly I get what I want because they do understand I have to have these things. They also want to keep me happy because I pay them loads of money.

[Rea]

My old one is going up to £18 per session (around 3 hrs thay are charged for) Also the main users, cubs,scouts and guides have folded over theast 3 yrs due to lack of numbers but I think we were charged less.

[Inge]

ok, we are a charity which can make a difference I know.

 

we rent a church hall, old, and has 2 rooms, 2 toilets, kitchen and largish store cupbaord for us.

 

two years ago our rent went up by 25% and is now at £67.50 per week 38 weeks a year, all day from 8.00 to 3.30 or later if we need it. as we pay weekly and it is very low we do pay for the odd days whan we are closed for Bank holidays etc, but as we can have access at any time no one else is using the hall and have used it during the holidays for cleaning etc we get lots of free time! (we are aware we get a good deal, but as we were struggling for years explains the reason why.)

 

Our one bug bear is that NO ONE cleans the hall but us, so taking the cleaning costs into account this adds another £2000.00 a year to the costs as we pay a cleaner to do the job, and supply all amterials. When they try to increase the rent we pointed this out and said we would happily pay them if they paid and supplied the cleaner.... rent remained as it is.

 

we have free reign of the hall, displays, decorating walls, any changes we want within reason, but have to put equipment away every day for other evening hall users. (Alcoholics annon. gamblers anon. narcotics anaon soup kitchen in winter!! [see a trend here?] all of which i know either only pay a few pounds for the evening or not charged at all, and never clean up sufficiently, but if they dont clean at all and we have complained about this they have been asked to leave!!)

 

we have our own cupboards along the walls, as do other groups with no complaints about us adding to them, and when we need repairs we ask and they eventually get done, some faster than others.

 

we get heating lighting etc included and toilet rolls but have to pay for our own telephone line and paper towels for the children. recently found a supplier of small half sized ones so less waste..but cannot remember supplier at the momment it will come to me!(Ofsted impressed with our mini towels)

 

we had to negotiate an outdoor area with the church and school and were given some scrub land to use rent free if we maintained it and did it all completely ourselves, which is now fenced and has a safety surface this has worked very well, and we have found that the school has refurbished thier wildlife garden next door and has offered us the use of it if no one is out there, just had to risk assess the pond!

 

Overall we must pay about £4500.00 per year, including the cost of the cleaning, as we seem to have total responsibility for this but feel it should be hall owners duty to check and clean before we start.

 

well Peggy, you did ask!

 

Inge

[Guest]

oh I'm like Janice, don't get me started on the hall!!!!!! i pay £10.00 per HOUR my rent is £300 per week we do 8.30 til 2.30 we are only allowed in 15 mins before we come in and set up at 8.30. my session with the children starts at 9.15 so I pay for setting up as well. When they put the rent up they complained that we used to many paper towels so they put in Hand dryers and I complained they were to dangerous for the children so they would have to keep supplying the paper towels. we have new cleaners who are church members and they have been very good at supplying soap in the toilets and all the washing up liquid, because before we had to supply everthing. I also have to pay £20 every 2 weeks to have the grass cut in the fenced off area that we use. I paid for the fence and the concrete to do the path. my rent last year was £11,000 plus for the year. some of the church members say that there are lots of people waiting to use the hall and I should be glad that I have some where to use.

We have to use a small room on Fridays for our lunch club and they still make me pay for the whole hall, even though the church members use it for a Hunger lunch that they do to raise money for a charity in India. Not only that but my staff also have to lay the tables and chairs out for them as I complained about them coming in the hall and putting out tables while I had parents and children moving about leaving. The Priest said that if I didn't want people in the hall then I would have to get it ready for them as he was not going to change the times of his Mass to accomodate them having to wait for us to finish laying out the tables. So now we have to do it. I'm have got very rude with them as they are so condescending. I am not catholic and they treat us as though we were 2nd class citizens. I pay them more than any other hall user so if I was to leave it would be a BIG dent in their income, but they don't seem to ralise that. I think they think God will provide the upkeep of the hall. He is also meant to clean the toilets and the kitchen when the cleaners don't come in and take out the rubbish. (God that is ) Sorry to any one I have offended but I have had Church memebrs up to ceiling!!!! incase you hadn't noticed I feel so much better for that

Sorry Peggy didn't mean to take over your spot I think its a sore subject with some of us. I know that in our area I am one of the highest rents there is, hence the reason that I am trying to find our own premises. What a mortgage I could pay on a £1,200 a month!!!!

[Guest JPH]

I now appreciate how lucky we are. We are a sessional pre-school, held in a church hall, and our rent will be increasing to just £9 per session in September!

[Guest]

Our rent is £10 an hour but we have sole use of the premises-church hall cellars. So we have no packing away, we set up for the next day before we leave and we can have as much display as we want. We provide all cleaning materials and paper towels and toilet rolls, and we do the cleaning ourselves.

We are given free reign down there-so we can decorate and organise it as we please. There is a church warden who looks after us very well, so if we need repairs or new light bulbs etc. he usually comes down straight away and sorts out the problem for us.

Having worked in a playgroup where we had to set up each day and share with other groups I do appreciate what hard work it is.

Linda

[Guest]

Linda ... yours sounds like a really nice set-up Sounds all very calm and relaxed!

 

Steph ............. I cannot believe what you have to put up - well I can because I know you do!

Just worked out though that if I paid for 2 sessions per day like you, then I also would be paying £300 p.w. I don't pay to cut the grass but that's because many a time I go there and cut it myself - it makes me mad cos my own garden could do with some TLC and there am I cutting the church hall's. We can go in earlier to set up but I would hit the roof if they charged extra for that - why ?????? Because my husband goes in every morning at 7.00 a.m. to set up all the tables and chairs and heavy mats to make it a little bit easier for the staff. Of course he does that unpaid and all before he goes off to his own, very stressful day job. Another member of staff goes in at 7.45'ish to carry on setting up, but isn't paid until 8.30 a.m.

 

I had a ding dong with the the 'dragon' (see previous post ) (she is also the cleaner) re the state of cleaning or not as is sometimes the case. Her argument is that she can't get in to clean in the morning 'cos my husband is there putting out the tables etc. The fact that the toilets are in a completely different area to the main hall doesn't seem to be a point for consideration.

 

If any permanent premises became available in our area, then I reckon there would be a long queue of applicants.

 

Are supposed to be on holiday ?????? Flipping heck I feel pretty wound up now !!!!!!!!!!

[hali]

The cleaner at our hall emplyed by the trustees is uslesss and we get the blame for leaving the premises in a state!!!!

[Guest]

Not to nark anyone, we are in our own building (so no setting up), on an upper school site. We have recently paid £1000 to arrange a 10 year lease with the school, so we are there hopefully for a long while.

Our rent is £150 per term. This includes all utilities, use of the upper school facilities, external maintenance and if we catch the site agents on a good day internal maintenance. We are on the schools security alarm system and are included in all there pat testing, fire equipment testing etc.

 

I know we have it VERY cushy, but we do still have to put up with all the upper school students. This may not sound that bad, but I have had parents take their children away because of the language and fighting that they witness when waiting for the pre school to open.

 

 

Net x

[hali]

you are extremely lucky Linda

[Guest MaryEMac]

We too are quite lucky. We are in a purpose built room attached to the local primary school which we share with a Tots group and an After school club. When we first went in there it was brand new and we were charged a peppercorn rent of £3 per year plus the cost of the utilities (about £400). At this point we were the sole users then in came the tots and then the after school club. This year which is our 6th year of occupancy the school governers decided that the rent would have to go up to cover maintenance costs ( most of this maintenance was flagged up on the snags list when we first moved in (2000) but not fixed until this year). Rent was duly put up to £350 per year plus utilities. We use the hall for 5 sessions a week and use it for one afternoon a week for staff meetings/training. We weren't too happy but paid up, although we are a lot better off than some of you out there.

 

Mary

[Guest]

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR RESPONSES,

Sorry if I opened up the red rag to the bull, so to speak :rolleyes: , but as some of you have mentioned cleaners, the bain of my life, I don't feel too guilty :wacko:

 

It certainly shows how diverse we all are, coping with different management logistics and expenses.

I shall look more closely over the next few weeks and see if I can work out an avarage to propose to my landlords. ( maybe, it is the hols).

 

I just got info on my increase of 5%, my rent is going up another £125 per term

 

I am in the situation now where I will have to make 3 staff redundancies , unless a guardian angel can solve my finances, maybe after a rest and some sunshine things will look better. I've learnt from the stress I had last yaer over staffing that it's not worth worrying about, say la vie, I haven't the energy to worry ( and it doesn't change anything, more's the point).

 

Hopefully in the future if I can get into the local primary school, things will look more promising.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

I'm working on the fact that the law now states that LEA's have to help groups that want to move premises or can't afford the rent's etc. even if they are private. so I will keep you all informed on how we get on. and Janice if I find somewhere in your vicinity I will let you know. Have you thought about finding your own place and moving the group? have a happy holiday

Steph

[Marion]

Pity youre so far away Peggy we are looking for a partner to help with wrap around care and hopefully will have a new build childrens centre on site for accomodation

[Guest]

Hi Steph - yep if you know of anything please let me know - especially if it meant not having to set up every day ! Mind you I think there would be a stampede don't you. Oh and the other thing is this ......... if I had to pay a commercial rent, then I would have to open more hours to pay for it & don't think that's on my agenda right now

[Guest]

Pity youre so far away Peggy we are looking for a partner to help with wrap around care and hopefully will have a new build childrens centre on site for accomodation

 

 

Hmmm, very tempting, I wonder if I can interest hubby into moving.

( I was going to write persaude ( instead of interest) but as you can see mental block and can't for the life of me think how to spell it )

 

All this forward planning does zap the energy levels, mind you 5 yrs in current location has at times felt like 10 yrs, but then again at other times felt like only a few yrs.

 

Actually, we normally put away every day, but we didn't have to last week of term, I found that the setting was less inviting, same things left out each day, untidyness, things left half done etc etc, so maybe it isn't such a bad thing to put away at end of session and start afresh each morning, certainly makes you think more about how activities are presented.

 

Peggy

[Sue R]

Really good point, Peggy!! We periodically have to badger staff to remember to set up attractively for tomorrow (DN)

 

Sue