Developing The Children's Workforce - EYPS

[Aunt Sally]

Maybe I really have lost the plot and hope I am misreading R7 which states

one of the requirements of EYP status is:

'Have a minimum of two years relevant experience one of which must be in a setting covering the age from birth to the end of the foundation stage'

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Oh so I am not alone I wondered about the 0-5. Not many practitioners in schools would be able to fulfil this requirement.

 

I also don't have a GSCE Maths. I have looked into it but on top of my OU study it was too much. It has always been my weakness but it doesn't hold me back to teach it at the level I currently teach. I guess they have to standardise it some how.

[Gezabel]

I have an ancient Maths O level but the grade was about the lowest pass possible and I doubt it is the equivalent to a GCSE C pass!

 

I totally agree Debbington about the level we require when working in Early Years.

 

I have done the OU course E230 which is a level 2 course ' Language, Maths and Science in the Early Years' I gained a distinction and think that is far more relevant! (the course not my grade!)

Edited April 12, 2006 by Geraldine

[Smiles]

Wow! Geraldine I'm doing E230 now and guess I'll knmow where to come for any advise on the course. I'm really enjoying it, one of the more interesting courses I've done so far with the OU. Think your right about the relevance.

 

Sue

[Rea]

I am like 'Ann'. I dont always read these kinds of consultation documents because I wont understand what they are saying until someone explains it in clear English, thats one reason I didnt do the NVQ levels, the wording was gobbledegook. Anyway, I am reading this with great interest. I can see how higher level qualifications can help the children but that cant replace committment and enthusiam for the job. I dont want to be 'managed' by someone who can tick the boxes and wave the right piece of paper. I need to know that what I'm doing, planning and thinking for the children is valued, not the fact that I have followed the routines correctly (time for nappies, time for snack etc) I will read the document and if the voting or handing over of ideas is easy, I will take part. I see people working who have achieved level 3 but dont know what they are doing and have even less interest, who dont visit sites such as this, read books or find out other ways of doing things. I dont want that to happen with higher level qualifications.

[Marion]

I am like 'Ann'. I dont always read these kinds of consultation documents because I wont understand what they are saying until someone explains it in clear English, thats one reason I didnt do the NVQ levels, the wording was gobbledegook. Anyway, I am reading this with great interest. I can see how higher level qualifications can help the children but that cant replace committment and enthusiam for the job. I dont want to be 'managed' by someone who can tick the boxes and wave the right piece of paper. I need to know that what I'm doing, planning and thinking for the children is valued, not the fact that I have followed the routines correctly (time for nappies, time for snack etc) I will read the document and if the voting or handing over of ideas is easy, I will take part. I see people working who have achieved level 3 but dont know what they are doing and have even less interest, who dont visit sites such as this, read books or find out other ways of doing things. I dont want that to happen with higher level qualifications. 

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I agree it is a big worry that 'good' practitioners may fall by the wayside just because they do not possess the relevant qualifications. Its important that their skills and dedication are recognised.

As a school we get Level 3 NVQ students and wonder how they have progressed to that level Some arent even able to interact with the children. Are all colledges paid by pass rates????????? and why are totally unsuitable people being 'pushed' into childcare. As the mother of a teenage daughter who is phoned almost monthly by Connextions to see if shes changed her mind about doing a childcare course I just wonder how many other young girls end up on the course just because its available.! Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

[Guest]

Nikki, Thank you for your post and don't apologise for it's length. I feel a bit guilty for not contributing to the consultation but , I am a person that searches for information and new initiatives and still I missed this opportunity.  We cannot work our every day lives and keep up to date with everything, including consultation deadlines.

I have learnt a lot from your post about how much the "government" value, take on board our opinions.

How many people have access or time to access the  internet or  forums such as FSF?  I would not know about this consultation ( all be it too late) if I was not a member of FSF.

The communication methods of government for informative consultation is dire. They should have sent consultation papers to every setting, then maybe they would have had a better response.

I am an active researcher and reflector, but if I am really honest , very important consultations are misrepresented ( due to lack of representation) because I, and people like me are at burn out stage because of too many initiatives, consultations happening all at the same time. I am now feeling very frustrated that I have missed an opportunity to voice my views because of overload of information, initiatioves, consultations etc.

 

Peggy

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I couldn't agree more Peggy - honestly I spend half my life trying to find information, it's about time they created an integrated website of valuable information and research under subject/interest headings. It would be a vast website but surely in this day and age it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possiblities -

 

I really didn't mean to have a go at anyone here - honest - but I just get so cross and its not directed at people on this site as someone else said this should have been publicised more and sent to a selection of settings.

 

However, let's all think about replying to the current consultation which someone else has kindly put up a link to - perhaps Steve could do one of his surveys that flashes up everytime you come on here reminding us to complete it and to tick a yes box when we have. I think as we are given an opportunity of providng some input we ought to, whether it will do any good - ah, there's another matter. Consultation ends end of May

Nikki

[Guest]

I agree it is a big worry that 'good' practitioners may fall by the wayside just because they do not possess the relevant qualifications. Its important that their skills and dedication are recognised.

As a school we get Level 3 NVQ students and wonder how they have progressed to that level Some arent even able to interact with the children. Are all colledges paid by pass rates????????? and why are totally unsuitable people being 'pushed' into childcare. As the mother of a teenage daughter who is phoned almost monthly by Connextions to see if shes changed her mind about doing a childcare course I just wonder how many other young girls end up on the course just because its available.!  Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

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Hopefully not, there will still be a need for everyone and I know they are tyring to ensure that everyone working in pre schools have an NVQ 2 qualification but I am sure there will be ways you can credit your prior learning - as you say the NVQ doesn't always give the best results. For me I would far rather employ someone with life experiences (young or old) who are wiling to learn in a non formal manner than someone who has very fixed ideas straght out of a text book. Life is never that straightforward.

 

Nikki

[Guest]

I am just a bit confused as to what I would need to do. I have been a nursery school teacher for 6 years with a degree with QTS. Do I need to hold the EYPS as it is equivalent to QTS? Does this mean I would have to gain experience of birth to three? The nursery currently has children aged 3-4 and is not going to become a Children's Centre for a while. It is going to offer services to support local Children's Centres. I really don't want to change my job. So what would I be expected to do and is any of this relevant to me?

 

I dont know if I have missed anything as I have only skimmed through the information. So if I have please accept my apologies for being a bit dense.

Sue

Edited April 12, 2006 by Guest

[Alison]

reading the long long list of requirements/standards my initial thoughts are:- thats a lot for one person within a team to do!

within my own work team we have always had the emphasis of "team work " I know its important for the senior staff to be competent to do all the tasks involved with providing a good service but within many teams as with the Anne's and the Janes few people manage to be good at all the tasks (ok I know there are some good all rounders) but for those mortals who live here on planet earth I would question whether anyone can be good at everything all of the time?? I know I fail the requirement of a grade C in English but I have got maths grade C. I have a degree but I dont have expereince of the end of foundation stage (reception class) I've always thought of myself as an all rounder, good with the children and with the admin but Im not good at everything which the standards seem to want.

 

it seems a lot to ask of one person who in the natural order of preschools, nursery settings and schools there would be a team of staff to support and share these tasks, the Anne's of this world would focus more on the hands on, Janes would be focusing more on the planning,report writing and other admin and the senior staff pickup what ever else needs doing and I would question what other work place the managers play such a hands on role? will elevating the status the senior early years staff affect their willing ness to get dirty, clean the toilets and muck in with the rest of the team during the sessions?

 

the childcare work force relies heavily on the level of respect within the team and creating higher status qualification and offering more money to those who are able to achieve might be demotivating to those that work tirelessly every week, without moaning, turning up early to get the heating on, leaving late to ensure all the toys and equipment are away and then going out and buying all the tuck and resouces in their own time.

 

I would be interested in further professional development and it would be great to have a good wage to reflect that hardwork but I dont want the rest of the staff to feel less valued just because they havent been to university, especially when during typical session times we all do the same basic job.

[Marion]

I think level 6 is equal to QTS (if Im reading it right) to get to the top level (7) you need 2 years experience one of which needs to be working birth to the end of FS...........is that right?

Edited April 13, 2006 by Marion

[Guest]

On the draft standards it says that level 7 is the NPQICL. So the EYPS would be the equivalent to what I am now. The standards do seem to pretty much describe my job at the moment. Except that I have not done birth to 3.

 

Sue

[Marion]

On the draft standards it says that level 7 is the NPQICL. So the EYPS would be the equivalent to what I am now. The standards do seem to pretty much describe my job at the moment.  Except that I have not done birth to 3.

 

Sue

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Same here Sue..........unless you count my own kids and babysitting

[Aunt Sally]

On the draft standards it says that level 7 is the NPQICL. So the EYPS would be the equivalent to what I am now. The standards do seem to pretty much describe my job at the moment.  Except that I have not done birth to 3.

 

Sue

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I would imagine that lots of practioners will not have experience in this age group in their setting - nurseries,reception classes. I keep going back to it to see if I have missed anything. The only thing I have found was in the govts response where it says that QTs would need little training and development to fulfill the role of a EYP working with under threes and that knowledge of early childhood development was crucial.

[Guest]

Would we have to just do training or would we need to work in a different setting where they do birth to three. I am just wondering if we could work alongside local childminders to help in birth to three as I already support our local group on an informal basis and they do come to nursery to meet.

 

Then again my job at the moment takes all my time (and more!!!) So I just dont know. I must admit I would like to know more about birth to three but I am very committed to where I work and I just dont know how it will all fit together.

 

I also have three children so I do have that experience

 

Sue

[Guest]

I also have three children so I do have that experience

 

Sue

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Personally, I think that personal experience should count for something! I was a NN before I had my daughter and I think I would have struggled, in all honesty, withouth the knowledge I had learnt whilst doing my AMA.

 

However, I have had to deal with some situations that my managers in the past have struggled with and I think that this is largely due to the fact I've had to face them with my own daughter! I took a child to hospital with suspected meningitis based on the obvious symptoms but also on those factors I would only recognise as a mum.

 

It's a shame that we need pieces of paper really, especially when personal experience counts for so much!

 

My own mum is thinking of a career in childcare following the birth of my daughter. In my opinion (and not because I am biased!) she would be good doing the hands on work with the children, but I think she would struggle with the paperwork involved in completing a qualification. She has 2 children of her own, so as you say, Sue, she has experience but unfortunately, this counts for nothing.

[Guest lucyevans]

The draft standards for EYP

 

http://www.cwdcouncil.org.uk/projects/Draf...pril%202006.pdf

[Guest]

reading the long long list of requirements/standards my initial thoughts are:- thats a lot for one person within a team to do!

within my own work team we have always had the emphasis of "team work " I know its important for the senior staff to be competent to do all the tasks  involved with providing a good service but within many teams as with the Anne's and the Janes few people manage to be good at all the tasks (ok I know there are some good all rounders) but for those mortals who live here on planet earth I would question whether anyone can be good at everything all of the time?? I know I fail the requirement of a grade C in English but I have got maths grade C. I have a degree but I dont have expereince of the end of foundation stage (reception class) I've always thought of myself as an all rounder, good with the children and with the admin but Im not good at everything which the standards seem to want.

 

it seems a lot to ask of one person who in the natural order of preschools, nursery settings and schools there would be a team of staff to support and share these tasks, the Anne's of this world would focus more on the hands on, Janes would be focusing more on the planning,report writing and other admin and the senior staff pickup what ever else needs doing and I would question what other work place the managers play such a hands on role? will elevating the status the senior early years staff affect their willing ness to get dirty, clean the toilets and muck in with the rest of the team during the sessions?

 

the childcare work force relies heavily on the level of respect within the team and creating higher status qualification and offering more money to those who are able to achieve might be demotivating to those that work tirelessly every week, without moaning, turning up early to get the heating on, leaving late to ensure all the toys and equipment are away and then going out and buying all the tuck and resouces in their own time.

 

I would be interested in further professional development and it would be great to have a good wage to reflect that hardwork but I dont want the rest of the staff to feel less valued just because they havent been to university, especially when during typical session times we all do the same basic job.

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HEAR, HEAR

 

Hopefully it won't end up with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. and as the Chief in my preschool, I always pow wow with my Indians. I haven't looked at the draft standards yet for EYP, but does it include business skills?

Now do I read the draft or get on with my Invoices, which I have been avoiding ( being the good business person that I am)

 

Peggy

[Marion]

HEAR, HEAR   

 

Hopefully it won't end up with too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. and as the Chief in my preschool, I always pow wow with my Indians.   I haven't looked at the draft standards yet for EYP, but does it include business skills?

Now do I read the draft or get on with my Invoices, which I have been avoiding ( being the good business person that I am)

 

Peggy

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READ THE DRAFT Peggy!!

then let me know what it says

[Guest]

I run a pre-school and my concern is for the workforce who go out there every day, working hard for very little pay, often unqualified but experienced and valuable team members.

 

It`s great that they want to help by making for a qualfied and professional workforce, having a qualified team does make a diffrence. However unless we are given some means of paying more for qualified staff the system falls down.

 

I can access free NVQ training for my staff, however I can`t afford to pay a decent wage in recognition of this. Recently I asked a member of staff to consider training, this made her take a real good look at her job and realise she could get a lot more money for a lot less effort working at Tesco so she left. To be honest I can`t say I blame her. Most childcare workers aren`t in the profession for the money but for the love of the job. They work very hard for very little money.

 

We need to look at raising the pay and status of the current workforce before putting this new level 6 teacher type person at the top and paying them lot`s of money. I may be given money initially to employ them but how long will this funding last. I won`t be able to pay it once it ends.

 

I find this whole issue really maddening. We need to look at rasing the pay and status of the current workforce as a priority before we look at drafting in others at the top.

 

Anyone else out there feel the same?

[mundia]

I have just managed to catch up with this and it has made a very interestingread, so thanks to Helen for the article and to everyone who haas contributed.

As a teacher in aschool, there are lots of questions I am asking about the future of early years teachers in schools, and the more I read the more Im not really sure if there are any answers yet.

 

I can see that the draft standards for EYP as well as the initial academic requirements are to come in line with the requirements for QTS if the EYP is to be equivalent. There are alternatives to getting the GCSe in maths/English and there are also 'skills tests' available to meet the academic requirements. I would imagine that these would also be available as possibilities for those wishing to gain EYP status. Sadly I do know of a friend who has consistently failed her maths skills test and as such cannot get QTS so I would expect the same to be the case with the EYP.

 

In terms of the satndards they have a similar format to the training to teach standards; same overall headings but obviosusly some of the content is different; some of the standards are the same but with a contextual slant (the ITT standards are for teachers working with any age group from FS to KS4). I can see a streamlining going on here. Interesting that the ITT standards are being dramatically condensed on the grounds of being too cumbersome so I can see the EYP standards being trimmed or collated further yet...maybe

 

One thing I would very much like to know. Is there anything available online regarding the original consultation on the term EYP? Where did it come from and what were the other considerations (I think pedagogue was one) and why was this one chosen?

thanks..

[Alison]

one thing I wonder about is will the preschool EYP have the same recognision within the education system or will they be treated like the poor cousins?

 

Parents dont choose childcare because the manager has a degree but because they have a good reputation value for money etc so how will a higher qualification help other than add to the paperwork and stress of the manager or senior staff. quality assurance would have better impact and not undermine the valuable work of unqualified staff and their many skills and abilities

 

Parents tend to automatically choose school nurseries over communittee preschools and it will take along time (if ever) to tell parents that what their child recieves in the community is sometimes better than the school even if the manager has this higher status. In the 8 years that I have been a manager of a preschool only one parent has ever asked me what qualifications I had so will EYP make a difference Im not sure?

 

Mundia- I dont know who or where the term EYP came from and I dont think its the best title but I must admit I dont like the term Pedagogue, I struggle to pronounce it and most people I know have never even heard of the word, must admit I hadnt till I went into higher education.

[Lucie]

Hi guys, we were given the draft copy if the Early Years Proffessional standards to discuss at Uni, so hopefully ive attached a copy to this post!!

 

Draft_Early_Years_Professional_Standards.doc

 

 

laura x

[mundia]

Well as the deadline for the consultaion on the draft standards draws near (31st may I think), Im just wondering how many of us have actually found the time to contribute. Ive just spent time saying my piece but Im sure I wouldnt have done if I worked full time.

 

I dont know how these poll things work but could we set up a poll asking members if they have contributed or not..and what sector they represent?

[Guest]

I would imagine that lots of practioners will not have experience in this age group in their setting - nurseries,reception classes. I keep going back to it to see if I have missed anything. The only thing I have found was in the govts response where it says that QTs would need little training and development to fulfill the role of a EYP working with under threes and that knowledge of early childhood development was crucial.

i am currently working towards completing a foundation degree, topped up to BA hons, i have been informed that in order to access the funding from the transformation fund to EYPS you have to commit to your company for two years. if you leave for another job the funding will have to be paid back. is this true or is this just an urban myth?

[Guest Wolfie]

That's funny, I was thinking about that very issue this morning! I'm due to start the EYPS in September and have accessed funding from the Transformation fund for it but HAVEN'T been told that my authority want any kind of work commitment from me. I'll be interested to know if others have!

Edited May 26, 2007 by Wolfie

[Sue R]

Just a quick hello and welcome to Leonie, who slipped in there!

 

Good to have you aboard

 

Sue