Guest colechin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Could someone help me please. I have a staff member who is level 3, whose work is suffering. She struggles with the work load ie keeping learning journeys up to date, doing quality observations, raising the 2 year progress checks for some of her children etc. I as her manager and her supervisor have spoken spoken to her lots and lots of times and put in writing where we feel she is lacking and how we will support her. The lady in question improves for about 3 weeks and then slows down, starts moaning to other staff members and is becoming disruptive. On Friday I had another meeting with her and discussed with her where is is falling short and showed her the evidence. I have asked her to think over the half term holiday on how she can improve and to come back to me with her ideas on Monday, I wanted her to think about it all, instead of me coming up with ideas and then her failing to carry them out or starting off well and then her work deteriorating. What I need help with is raising a letter inviting her to a meeting about her capability, just in case she does not come back with any convincing ideas and how I should be structuring my argument and evidence out in the letter. Can anyone help me please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Do you have a professional person to call on and help you, union for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Your Early Years team? Have you identified any training possibilities that might bring her up to speed? Is there a role she could have that doesn't involve her having a key group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colechin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Thank you for your replies Possum and Susan. We are a small Charity Nursery so not part of a Union but, I have asked a local HR company for some advise. The lady would not be able to have another role within the Nursery as each key worker has a number of children. She has been on lots of courses ie: how to do observations, typing, understanding 2 year olds plus other specific courses which she has requested along with a weekly meeting with her supervisor to discuss any worries she may be having or difficulties she is having with her paperwork. I pay her to do her paper work the same as with all my staff, which works out at 9 hours a week on the Nursery site when the children have gone home which is 12.30 until 3.30pm. I am scouring the internet too looking for examples and advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Look on the ACAS website...lots of info on dicipline there...i suspect you need to give her a verbal warning (which is now called something else!!??!!) but this needs to be done properly....all info on acas if you trawl !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colechin Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Thank you finleysmaid. I will have a look now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlettangel Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Wow 9 hours a week paid time for paperwork??? Did I read that correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Yes, That's a lot of overtime pay! Even 9 hours a month is more than we get! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 9 hours a week paid for paperwork!!! i think she needs a kick up the backside !! Sorry if that sounds harsh but so far this week i have done 2 TLP's, Areas of development summary, Two year progress check, 7 learning journeys and trackers, request for guidance, new development matters for SEN child and thats all before i plan anything ready for next week on top of dealing with everything else currently dragging us all down at work !! (and all this is done at home when i should be spending my time with my own two young children) That is maybe harsh as i dont know this woman, but i think you should make her aware of how fortunate she is to actually get paid for her paperwork ! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfinch Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I seriously think you are providing WAY too much paid time for paperwork unless she has tons of key children. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowlow Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 HI I think that I should come work for you lol with 9 hours paid for paperwork that is more than I get as manager!!!! to be honest I can empathise with you completely I had a member of staff who was just the same with paperwork. She was fantastic with the children and when she did the paperwork it was always an incredibly high standard but she just struggled to get it done. In the end she left for another job off her own back as she could see that the paperwork wasn't going away and that with all the help she still just couldn't do it. Do you have anything in your policies for disciplinary action if staff cant/wont/don't do their jobs despite lots of help and intervention from yourself?? I think asking her for a solution was a very good you never know she may surprise you? do you know if everything is ok at home? does she have any literacy problems ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 I also had a member of staff who was exactly the same. It was very, very difficult for us to manage as she just felt that as she was being 'up front' about the difficulties she was having then we should support her (she says that she took legal advice on that). Being a committee run group we spoke to Lawcall it seemed she was right, as an employer we had to support her as much as we could. However we got totally fed up of the situation as it had been going on for years so we then spoke to Acas who were extremely helpful, they explained that she wasn't doing the job she was contracted to do, but that we had to follow disciplinary procedures - these are on their website. We had to give small goals - for me it was each week give her 1 hour time out of the group but in the building (was difficult to do) and she had to show me what she was going to do and then show me at the end of the hour what she had achieved. Every discussion and every extra bit of support had to written down and signed by employer and employee anyway to cut a very long story short - once she didn't keep her side of the bargain so we were able to give her a verbal warning, she then realised we meant business in the end she left us but it took years and created an atmosphere between all the staff, who had to keep helping her out all the time. My advice would be to document EVERYTHING that you say and every little bit of help you give her as you might need it to prove that you have helped her as much as you could. Also ring Acas for advice, I can't stress enough how brilliant they were. Good Luck 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Thanks for sharing your experience, thumperrabbit. Great advice there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 We adapted this and added it to our policies & procedures and also made reference to it in the staff handbook. These things are never nice to do, but at least it gives a structure Hope it helps CAPABILITY PROCEDURE.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 thanks for sharing markimark, that makes things clear. Can I ask what this statement means (it's been a long day!) This capability procedure is entirely non-contractual and does not form part of an employee’s contract of employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 To me it means that an employee can't be expected to sign it, like a contract. It's a procedure, rather than a policy, just spelling out the pattern of events if the situation arises 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 thanks for sharing markimark, that makes things clear. Can I ask what this statement means (it's been a long day!) This capability procedure is entirely non-contractual and does not form part of an employee’s contract of employment. Just that it is not part of their legal contract, (seems a bit negative to imply they may not be capable of doing the job before they start) but could be used as part of the appraisal or supervision process. Could be mentioned as part of the induction process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SazzJ Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Ohh my I could have wrote this post myself lol!!! In fact I came on here to post something very similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest colechin Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Hi everyone, I thought I would up date you on the situation but, first thank you for all your comments. The last 2 weeks have been tough. I have not slept and felt anxious having to go through the capability procedure but, I knew it had to be done as it not fair on everyone having to pick up her work, give her extra time to do paperwork and the atmosphere is not great. My last post was about the chat we had, where I asked her to think over the half term of how she could turn things around. On the Monday we came back I asked her if I could catch up with her at the end of the session when everyone had left. She sat in my office with a pad of paper and waited for me to speak. I asked her, did she have a good think over the half term and she shrugged her shoulders and said 'well I still want to work her' she didn't come up with any suggestions! I was frustrated to say the least, so I informed her that I would be starting the capability procedure. I sent her a letter the next day listing the areas she was under performing and the standards expected. She postponed the first date I suggested which was the start of the following week, but informed me in writing on the day of the expected meeting which she original said she could make. I then rescheduled the meeting for the Friday allowing her another 4 days notice to prepare herself. I explained why the meeting was being held and what would happen after the meeting (SMART targets set), but said that I wanted her to talk to me and tell me how we could support her, what difficulties she was finding which was stopping her from doing her work to the standard expected etc. She did make some comments through the meeting but, mostly shrugged shoulders and then the tears came! (which usually happens and this is why I have postponed taking it further for so long.......2 years) I asked if she would like a break and some tissues, which she refused. i then said I feel we should stop the meeting but, she said she wanted to get it over and done with. The only thing that she really came to the meeting prepared with was in my letter to her explaining the standards expected one was about what and when she should be doing paperwork for example: a tracker when they start, adult focus, 15 minutes, spontaneous observation, 2 year progress check, termly PLOD's and transition reports etc and she had brought a file with a sticker on the front mentioning all of these. After the meeting I typed up the minutes which had been taken and now I am about to try and set some targets which hopefully she will agree with on Monday. I felt exhausted yesterday and feel this situation is taking up so much of my time, making me behind on paperwork and I have just employed a new member of staff who also needs my time. I know she will not leave and she has said this in a round about way because she needs the money. She also informed me that she is not going to do any more work at home. (Usually, staff take some learning journeys home at 1/2 term to make sure they are up to date) I have always made it clear to all my staff that I will pay for some hours to do paperwork but, if they are behind then they need to catch up in their own time. Which I think is fair when they could have 9 hours to do paperwork in work time but, some choose to take the Friday afternoon off, instead of staying to do paperwork. Sorry for the long message but, hopefully you see where I am coming from and I just wanted to moan and give you an update. So, looking forward to the summer holidays!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperrabbit Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 Well done for tackling the situation, this is so much like my member of staff it's untrue! Keep on top of her weekly is my advice, as I did it 1/2 termly to begin with and soon realised she would do the bear minimum to get me off her back - this went on for over 3 years until after a verbal warning I started to do weekly updates with her. After 6 months of me meeting with her weekly she started to look for another job - id also been threatened with the line that she would never leave - but finally she left, 5 very long years it took, but free at last!!! Keep at it, it's soul destroying, but so worth it :1b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SazzJ Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 Is your capabilities procedure like a performance management? I have a staff member very similar and desperately need to do something despite the committee not wanting too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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