Increasing registered numbers and toilets

[Guest]

Hi, I hope someone here can help.

 

Our Nursery (rented Church hall building) has 4 toilets and 3 urinals (1 of which is child height). The staff use 1 of the 4 toilets virtually exclusively but the children can use it too. We have been registered for 32 children for about 6 years (Ofsted have been twice in that time and were happy with arrangement) but I want to increase to 36 which the new guidance says we can now do without applying to Ofsted first.

 

Space isn't an issue as the hall is very large and I thought it would be more than acceptable - but our EYA disagrees. She has said we should reduce numbers to 30 as we need an toilet exclusively for the staff. As I have read on previous posts some of you share toilets with the children when need be, and the new eyfs says "ideally" the adults have a separate toilet - not must.

 

I disagree with what she says but she has planted a seed of doubt. I suggested to her that the urinal could be counted in the "toilets" ratio but she told me that urinals are not "toilets" so we couldn't count it. Does anyone include children's urinals in with their calculations? I have asked Ofsted but they just referred me back to the statutory eyfs document which didn't help of course.

 

Does anyone have any similar issues - or know where I could go for a definitive answer? I need to get this settled I think as I am getting a bit obsessional about it - I have even spent my morning off googling the question "are urinals classed as toilets"!!! :rolleyes:

 

I am now a bit worried I have opened a can of worms with our EYA that I wish I hadn't :unsure:

 

Thanks Helen

[Guest]

Hi! I thought you did have to approach ofsted as on your certificate it says how many children you can take. When we changed our numbers they let us include some of the toilets at the other end of the building that were not in the pre-school rooms, we just completed a form for ofsted which we downloaded and completed, ofsted telephoned me we, we had a conversation and she said that was fine, a week later we had a new certificate with the number of children we wanted.

[sunnyday]

Hi! I thought you did have to approach ofsted as on your certificate it says how many children you can take. When we changed our numbers they let us include some of the toilets at the other end of the building that were not in the pre-school rooms, we just completed a form for ofsted which we downloaded and completed, ofsted telephoned me we, we had a conversation and she said that was fine, a week later we had a new certificate with the number of children we wanted.

 

They (Ofsted) are apparently in the process of altering all of our certificates........I have this from the 'horses mouth' as it were.........I have rung this week to ask for a 'variation' (long story) and it seems that the new certificates will no longer have the number of children shown on them and it will be up to us as providers to ensure that we are following Statutory Requirements and if so we can vary our numbers as and when we want/need to.......

 

Sorry Helen that doesn't help with your query......

[redjayne]

I too have the whole toilets thing - my EYAT remeasured for us to increase numbers then I was reminded about the 1-10 thing with toilets. When I queried it I was asked whether some of our 2 year olds were still in nappies or using potties to which I replied yes, and was told that the toilets we had would be fine ( we have 3 plus a separate staff/disabled toilet for 40 children) but have decided to get the bathroom remodelled to fit another one in anyway.

[mrsbat]

We have never classed urinals in the ratio of toilets:children. However when we had our inspection in september (That's the 2nd time I've said that on here tonight!) I had to show the inspector round, we have 1 disabled toilet, 2 ladies and 1 mens, she asked where the staff go and we said we only go when the children are not in the same toilet as us, (i.e. if there are children in the ladies then we go in the mens), she was absolutely fine with that and I did actually question her and ask if that was definitely ok, she did also comment that the fact we had 10 or so in nappies and not toilet training they were not currently counted in the toilet:child ratio anyway

[Guest]

That's really interesting - I hadn't considered the issue of children in nappies being able to be excluded redjayne. We often have 10 or more in nappies as we have so many 2 year olds now. All adults use the 1 disabled toilet only which is entirely separate so it could never be used when a child was in there too. Sounds like we have a similar arrangement to you mrsbat - so that is good to hear that ofsted were happy with what you said. Thanks - that has really helped.

[Guest]

the urinals are not child height are they? so cant be used by child or staff unless you have a male practitioner, it is not appropriate to use it. if children have access to the toilets

 

I actually think that staff toilets should be seperate.

 

Do you not have a disabled toilet? we use this as staff toilets, the mens for changing and th ladies for the children

[Guest]

1 urinal is child height urinal and 2 are adult height.- we have never thought that we counted them in, although a few older boys have chosen to use it in the past.

 

The staff use the disabled toilet which is entirely separate. The children always use the 2 toilets in the ladies because its nicer, but do use the one toilet in the mens if need be.

 

The staff never use either mens or ladies toilets. I felt comfortable that we were ok "toilets-wise" with either 32 or 36 children - but the EYA made me concerned. I think I need to write up a detailed analysis of our toileting arrangements and go through it with her at her next visit - it may well bore her into agreeing with me!!!!