Rewards, Sanctions And Timeout

[Guest]

Again this public humiliation keeps coming up! I don't like this phrase especially as it is never my intention for time out to be used this way.as adults (or in my experience and relationships of shillings) if one was to do wrong out would be pointed out, there would be fine kind of space to think things through and then all involved would move on.this is the way jo see time out.the child had fine wrong, needs time to think, then time to talk things through and thn it isn't brought up again-a fresh is started.other children in theenvironment see this happening and therefore realize there are consequences for unacceptable behavior, but there is room to move on.

 

Sorry if there are mistakes and the odd funny word added but I'm typing from my phone which is is proving rather difficult

[Guest]

No as adults we don't....but we';re adults we know what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't!

 

Why shouldn't children get instant gratification?? I'm not saying give them treats, etc. everytime they do something good but at least acknowledge the behaviour!! Reception is a class of 30 and probably about 15 of those are the kids who adults comment 'gosh you wouldn't know they were here they're so good' but they probably recieve hardly any recognition because of it.......while joe bloggs saps all the teachers time because there forever on time out!

 

Ive worked in a school i've seen it happen and i don't like it i'm commenting on my own experiences.

My point is that rather than focus on the negative by all this sanctioning focus on the positive......for young children to learn what is expected of them rewarding the positives however small is the way forward IMO.

I';m not saying they don't need consequences but i think the sanctions are thought of a lot more than the rewards isn't this why the thread started in the first place??

[Cait]

Yes, I agree with that. My lot love stickers. Accentuate the positive!

[millhill]

I'm not saying give them treats, etc. everytime they do something good but at least acknowledge the behaviour!!

 

I do this, and I also give rewards at the end of the week.

 

Reception is a class of 30 and probably about 15 of those are the kids who adults comment 'gosh you wouldn't know they were here they're so good' but they probably recieve hardly any recognition because of it.......while joe bloggs saps all the teachers time because there forever on time out!

 

The well-behaved children in my class always get recognised (verbal praise, a smile, stickers, star of the day/week, team points) they are never ignored for not being troublesome. Fortunately for me, I haven't had a 'joe bloggs' forever on time out situation. As I said, children rarely have time out in my class because they are praised for good behaviour, receive 2 warnings beforehand (unless they have hit someone) and because they are aware of the consequence and do not want to be on the cloud.

 

As long a rewards outweigh sanctions, then I do not see a problem with having a specific sanction system that is consistent and easy for children to understand.

[Guest]

 

]Yes the thread did start originally because I needed ideas on a simple yet effective sanction system-mainly because I have already spent a lot more time and effort throughout my 13 years of teaching on positive reinforcement rather than sanctions! Just wanted to know what fellow professionals were using.

 

And as for adults knowing what is expected of them and what isn't, we weren't born with that capacity. At some point in our lives we have been taught that and for most of us at some point that would have involved consequences which would make us think twice about doing it again. I'm not talking about consequences such as the more controversial ones but ones such as having something taken away from us if we've thrown it at someone, being grounded ( extended time out if you like) for lying, stealing, swearing, fighting.

 

So what should have happened to the 3 year old who bit my 2 year old today because he was in the way? A quiet word with no consequences?

[Guest]

 

 

I don't think once I've said that children shouldn't get instant gratification or their behaviour acknowledged-chn need to be shown instantly that what they have done is a good thing to do and be overly praised if you like for this- make a big deal of it. If a child is forever on time out or finding it difficult to follow agreed rules then there is something underlying that is wrong and needs to be investigated.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Guest

[Guest LornaW]

No as adults we don't....but we';re adults we know what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't!

 

Why shouldn't children get instant gratification?? I'm not saying give them treats, etc. everytime they do something good but at least acknowledge the behaviour!! Reception is a class of 30 and probably about 15 of those are the kids who adults comment 'gosh you wouldn't know they were here they're so good' but they probably recieve hardly any recognition because of it.......while joe bloggs saps all the teachers time because there forever on time out!

 

Ive worked in a school i've seen it happen and i don't like it i'm commenting on my own experiences.

My point is that rather than focus on the negative by all this sanctioning focus on the positive......for young children to learn what is expected of them rewarding the positives however small is the way forward IMO.

I';m not saying they don't need consequences but i think the sanctions are thought of a lot more than the rewards isn't this why the thread started in the first place??

 

Agreed!

There is a nice article in the last weeks TES regarding a school who had done away with stickers and were working on intrinsic motivation and they had seen a great change in children’s behaviour.

My point is similar to jules and through many years teaching what I have learned is stickers and charts, sun and cloud, time out and golden time have from my experience been short term fixes. So I did away with stickers etc in the whole of my school, we stopped golden time (after all day in YR should be golden time) took away the sun and cloud and went with conflict resolution. The first 2 - 3 weeks of each academic year focussed on the how we all wanted to be treated and so when children misbehaved we would be explicit in telling them.

eg "Thomas you running across the classroom with the scissors like that has made me very scared that you will hurt someone please stop" I would then discuss with Thomas how to hold the scissors.

or "Mary I can see you want to play with the hoop but Sian has it at the moment. I wonder if we can come up with a way to share?"

When a child’s behaviour got out of control we would stop the inappropriate behaviour, physically supplying the control the child lacks; hold the child while calmly explaining the reasons why the behaviour is unacceptable. Describing and labelling the child’s feelings if he or she was unable to describe them.

By Christmas children begin to get the idea and by the end of YR we hardly ever had to interfere children could sort out their own problems.

When praising children it was more a case of acknowledging their actions, learning or behaviour and no one missed stickers, certificated or golden time.

When I look at the work of Carol Dweck and Mindsets I believe I need to engage children from the very beginning to discuss and sort out problems and they will become better learners because of this.

I have been in many schools and before the summer break visited a school with a behaviour chart on the wall. Children’s names were on the rungs of a ladder and when they reached the top they would get a party. Most children were on the same rung apart from George. During the course of the morning I had heard his name mentioned a few time during tidy up with children blaming George for the mess, also during CI time blaming George for putting sand in the water. I asked the class teacher if she could discreetly point out George to me and her answer was "Oh! he is not in school today!" The children were already labelling George even when he wasn't in school!

So for me the longer route is, in the end, most preferable.

[millhill]

I also use conflict resolution as a behaviour management strategy and lots of general discussion about feelings etc. However, I have come across children who don't really care about others' feelings no matter how much we talk to them and in these cases a sanction is more effective as the child cares more about what happens to him/herself than what harm s/he has done to others.

 

Over time, it is hoped that the child will develop more empathy and that conflict resolution (which is always the first strategy I use, unless a child has hit someone) will work. But in the meantime, there has to be some way to let a child know s/he cannot get away with hurting others and also for other children to see that hurting someone has a consequence other than just being spoken to.

 

I have been in classes where there are no behaviour charts on the wall and children still blame one particular child for things that are wrong. Children don't need charts to see who is not behaving in their class, they know from experience of playing with each other.

[Guest]

Thank you LornaW 150% agree with your great post!!! For a minute thought i was the only one

 

I don't think once I've said that children shouldn't get instant gratification or their behaviour acknowledged-chn need to be shown instantly that what they have done is a good thing to do and be overly praised if you like for this- make a big deal of it. If a child is forever on time out or finding it difficult to follow agreed rules then there is something underlying that is wrong and needs to be investigated.

 

No you didn't.....it was millhill who posted 'why should children get instant gratification?' thats who the response was too.

 

]Yes the thread did start originally because I needed ideas on a simple yet effective sanction system-mainly because I have already spent a lot more time and effort throughout my 13 years of teaching on positive reinforcement rather than sanctions! Just wanted to know what fellow professionals were using.

 

And as for adults knowing what is expected of them and what isn't, we weren't born with that capacity. At some point in our lives we have been taught that and for most of us at some point that would have involved consequences which would make us think twice about doing it again. I'm not talking about consequences such as the more controversial ones but ones such as having something taken away from us if we've thrown it at someone, being grounded ( extended time out if you like) for lying, stealing, swearing, fighting.

 

So what should have happened to the 3 year old who bit my 2 year old today because he was in the way? A quiet word with no consequences?

 

Is that not what my post was about that children need to learn what positive and negative behaviour is??

We're talking about whole class situations here swilde not two children at home were timeout would be a step in the hall away from public view its the public ridicule that i'm getting at!

 

I do this, and I also give rewards at the end of the week.

 

 

 

The well-behaved children in my class always get recognised (verbal praise, a smile, stickers, star of the day/week, team points) they are never ignored for not being troublesome. Fortunately for me, I haven't had a 'joe bloggs' forever on time out situation. As I said, children rarely have time out in my class because they are praised for good behaviour, receive 2 warnings beforehand (unless they have hit someone) and because they are aware of the consequence and do not want to be on the cloud.

 

As long a rewards outweigh sanctions, then I do not see a problem with having a specific sanction system that is consistent and easy for children to understand.

 

Is this not instant gratification?!

Obviously rarely having to use the cloud shows that postive reinforcement works.....doesn't it?

 

Obviously some children have additional needs and they should have some form of behaviour strategys in place personal to them, at their level of understanding and ability. millhill your points are valid and i agree with what you are saying i just don't agree with the public humiliation thing which clearly you do not do but some schools abuse this system and their power as teachers!

[Guest LornaW]

However, I have come across children who don't really care about others' feelings no matter how much we talk to them and in these cases a sanction is more effective as the child cares more about what happens to him/herself than what harm s/he has done to others.

 

Yes I agree millhill some children take longer to learn and so we as the adults need to develop more and more ways of supporting them to do so. I find that getting the child who has been hurt or upset to explain to the other is often very powerful and again adults need to model this language and as previously stated in time children do learn. In adult life we know that sanctions don't always work as can be seen by the percentage of prinsoners who reoffend once leaving prison - may prisons are now using restorative justise and finding it powerful for the prisoner and the victim.

 

But in the meantime, there has to be some way to let a child know s/he cannot get away with hurting others and also for other children to see that hurting someone has a consequence other than just being spoken to.

 

Just being spoken to is NOT the easy option we are making children think about their action, listen to how others feel and to alter their behaviour by small degrees over time. I have had children before who find the listening end explaining very difficult and would rather have the sanction get it over with and then carry on as normal!

 

I have been in classes where there are no behaviour charts on the wall and children still blame one particular child for things that are wrong. Children don't need charts to see who is not behaving in their class, they know from experience of playing with each other.

 

Yes I agree but mainly becasue they hear the adut continually telling the child off etc! Children are very quick to pick up on things and always know which group is for the bright children and which is the support group, they know which adult doesn't like to go outside and who is afraid of spiders but were never actually tel them this explicitely they just have that wonderful 6th sense!

 

I have posted elsewhere about a book called 'You can't come to my party' and it has excellent ideas for working with children and developing that intrinsic motivation and self control and has every scenario in there that you can think of an easy and excellent book to read!

 

Lorna

[millhill]

I completely agree with getting a victim to explain their feelings to the perpetrator. But it doesn't always work for some children.

 

My husband has been working with prisoners for 18 years, he has seen many repeat offenders, many of which are mentally ill and shouldn't actually be there, a large proportion have come from care, a considerable amount are addicted to drugs and most are from low-socioeconomic backgrounds.

The majority of offenders have very few people who care about them, and those who do let them down a lot....what my husband finds is that when he talks to the offenders they are always repentent for their crimes (and he has come across some awful ones), but when they get out, even if they do have restorative justice, they have to go back to their difficult lives, they often find comfort with their criminals friends or they get hooked back on drugs again, then they commit more crimes because it's a quick way to get the money they need to keep up their lifestyle. Restorative justice works for a lot of prisoners, but not for all......and what to do with those who only care for themselves? (And there are many).

 

Anyway, moving on from the prison system!

 

My point about the being spoken to, was that other children will see a child hit another child and will then see the former child being spoken to by an adult and that's it, even if it is for a long time and the child doesn't like it, the other children are seeing a conversation as a punishment. This might not be a deterrent for some.

 

In my class, the child who hits another will have time out (often time to calm down, as they won't listen to anything being said to them if they are angry), their photo on the cloud, to show them that their actions are not the same as all the others on the sun. Once they have had time out, and calmed down, then they get spoken to about their actions, they are shown the class rule poster and explained which rule they broke, they are asked what they could do next time instead of hitting, they are brought to the victim and the victim explains how s/he feels, then the perpetrator is asked to tell the victim that they won't do it again and what they will do next time. If their behaviour improves they are taken off the cloud and put back on the sun for the next part of the day.

 

I have dealt with some extremely difficult behaviour in previous workplaces where talking to the children was all that we did. This did work for some children, but for others, it wasn't enough. I find the sun/cloud system is a good deterrent as well, children don't want to be separated from their class and they know that hitting someone will result in this.

Last year, I had a child who came in hitting children 'left, right and centre', he did this in his nursery as well. In his nursery, his actions were excused for his lack of communication skills, however, after working with lots of children with SL&C difficulties, I knew that the hitting was not about communicating. We spent quite a while talking to him about not hitting children, suggesting alternatives, helping him to communicate his wants, getting him to see how upset he had made the other children, but he kept on hitting. Then one day, I put his photo on the cloud, he became upset (this was the first time he ever showed remorse for hitting) and after we explained no hitting, no cloud.......from then on the hitting stopped and the child didn't go on the cloud again. This is not a one-off case either.

 

I think I will stop putting my point across now! ("Phew", say all those who are signed up to email notifications!)

 

I will agree to disagree on the subject of a visual sanction.

Edited August 30, 2012 by millhill

[Upsy Daisy]

Just to go back to the traffic light type systems for a moment. Can I ask why being in the red zone with an explanation of why they are there, how their behaviour has affected others and how they can make a better choice next time isn't enough?

 

Why does the child need time out too?

 

My understanding is that time out is intended to give the child a chance to calm down in a safe place away from the trigger for the unacceptable behaviour. This enables the child to regain control of his or her feelings, begin to process language and their own thoughts more successfully and then rejoin the group when they feel calm and able to move on.

 

Do you still use time out if the child is calm and in control of their actions and emotions?

 

If time out is seen as a punishment how do you use it constructively to help children to learn to use this as a strategy to manage their anger?

[StrawberyTwirl]

Interesting debate! I think it's quite important to recognise that this post is in the reception & key stage 1 discussion forum. In my opinion the age of a child and his previous experiences will have an impact upon rewards, sanctions and time out. As the child develops so does his capacity to understand behavioural expectations.

 

I am the manager of a pre-school. We have children from 21/2 to 41/2 in the same room. Whilst we have the same behaviour policy, same nursery rules (just five, that the children decide upon) we try to recognise the children as individuals and have expectations that are appropriate to their stage of development, reward and sanction accordingly.

 

We advocate conflict resolution, for the younger children this tends to be recognising the conflict and giving a name to the emotions that a child may be feeling, and reminding of the particular rule the particular unacceptable behaviour relates too!

 

I also think it is important to consider if a child has acquired theory of mind. Whilst children need to develop an understanding of 'right and wrong' without theory of mind... they won't understand the why.

 

I recently completed an Elklan course (pre-school children's communication skills) and was introduced to 'The Blank Language Scheme'. Quite an eye opener and has helped us to modify our language to make sure it is at an appropriate level for a child. Sorry... cant find an easy link!