Foundation stage profiles

[Helen]

Hi Sally,

It doesn't sound like you are getting much support from your head. Has s/he been on any Foundation Stage training courses? I know in East Sussex, both the reception teacher and the head were invited to attend (although not many heads did)

[Guest]

Hi, I think you are quite right Helen, if the FSP's were to go home with parents, it's very likely that they would never been seen again! However I think that if parents were allowed to view these at parents evening (like when they are allowed to look at their child's work books) then they can stay with school for safe keeping, and become the school's transition document.

 

Has any pre-schools considered taking on these FSP booklets as a way of assessment process? What do any of you teachers think of these books being started in pre-school and becoming a transition document for you. Do you feel that you can trust Early Years Practitioners judgements? Or have I just opened a can of worms!!

[Carol]

Hi

 

As I understand it the FSP is for reception teachers to use during the child's reception year at school. Why is there always pro formas for schools and hardly anything for pre-school groups?

 

At our nursery we observe each child at least once during the session through a focused activity and we keep notes on yellow sticky pads for other noticable acheivements and we put these in teh childs assessment folder. We also do a child focused observation on each child at least once every half term....this is where a member of staff observes a child during free play for approx 10 mins.

 

Carol

[Steve]

Hi Carol -

I guess the short answer to the question is that reception classes are a full part of the state funded system, whereas pre-schools and playgroups have to find a budget to draw up their own documentation

 

And Becky - I think pre-schools and reception classes are being irreversibly stitched closer together in such a way that the handover documentation and process will become much more formalised.

 

So if you put these things together Carol - maybe nurseries will end up getting their documentation provided soon?

 

There are rumours that the NEG grant will eventually only be provided to nurseries that provide the appropriate documentation -

 

Regards, Steve.

[Guest]

Morning All!

You do very well Carol, to observe something from every child throughout each session. We would find that an impossibility!

 

Steve, yes you are right we are becoming closer together (not you and I, but schools and pre-schools!!). I am still a little lost when it comes to the FSP - is this supposed to be just for Schools or is it for pre-school use also. I can see such a great use for it in pre-school as well as school. As far as I can see so much of it includes the entire foundation stage, not just reception class.

 

Please anyone who is intending, or already does, use the FSP in your pre-school setting, write in and let us know how your local school(s) are supporting you (or not!).

I get the impression that schools would far rather make up their own minds about where the children are at! The transition document which many settings are now creating, teachers seem to want the most basic information, like 'Can they go to the toilet by themselves?' - is this all we are trusted to know about our children?

 

Sorry that this reply has turned so 'heavy', its the impression I am getting from teachers in my local area. So come on teachers - tell us what your response is to this!

[Helen]

Hi Carol,

Welcome to the site, and thank you for posting

I agree with Becky; you are doing exceptionally well in observing each child during a focussed activity each session. That's something we haven't yet contemplated!

I'm sure that the way forward is to provide training in observation and completing profiles for BOTH pre-school practitioners and reception teachers to attend at the same time. Pre-schools and schools really need the opportunities to meet, exchange ideas and develop respect for each others' jobs. Only then will the records passed onto schools be truly useful for reception teachers.

The main difficulty I see is that reception teachers may feel that too much has been completed for a particular child and s/he seems to achieved the ELGs before attending school. The value added stuff then comes into play, and how to record achievements beyond the ELGs. I know there is the "point 9" in each aspect of the FSPs to indicate achievement beyond the ELG; perhaps that needs expanding for certain children?

[Guest]

Hi all,

Well the FSP booklets have arrived at school at last! I attended a cluster group meeting for reception teachers in my area recently and it was agreed by all that for this year we will all fill in the FSPs based on assessments and observations we are making now rather than back track through the previous two terms. We also decided that for our parents' benefit this year we will write a full report to them at the end of the year and keep the FSPs in school to pass on to Year 1. Next year, the FSPs will be introduced to new parents at the beginning of the year during the first interviews and they will receive the document in place of a written report at the end of the year. A copy of the FSPs will be made to pass on to Yr1.

We think that this is a fairer way of a reporting to our current parents as they haven't got a clue about what is going on with FSPs. (I'm not much better off!)

 

As for the debate about whether pre-schools should be filling in FSPs, my opinion is YES of course they should! I would be pleased to receive a profile for each of my new entrants next September from pre-schools showing how they are already on their way towards reaching the ELGs. And of course I would take them seriously. I agree that there will be some teachers who would not. But if they visit the pre-school settings and meet with pre-school practitioners regularly, surely a partnership of trust can be built? I, unfortunately do not get the opportunity to do so at present as my year group partner makes all the visits, but I really must make sure that I do get the opportunity soon- and I will.

 

Jen x

[Carol]

Hi Becky & Helen

 

Due to the size of our room we can only have up to 16 children a session and we run a key worker system. The keyworker is responsible for assessing a small group of children during our focused activity. Basically the observatiopn is about what the child is saying and doing, how they are interacting and the stepping stone level they are currently working at.

 

I am also a Learning Support Worker for a few afternoons a week in the Reception/YR 1 class. Our pre-school group has very good communication with the reception teacher and we pass on each childs record card (with the parents permission)which contains all of the ELGs and what colour band they are working in. There is also spaces for comments on each area of learning.

 

Carol

[Carol]

Hi Steve

 

I have produced all of our assessment/planning sheets/SEN documents etc on the computer and at the moment they are working really well but it would still be nice to have a standard set of records for pre-school groups to pass on. Our nursery is on the school site and I have good communication with the reception teacher and she is happy with the information she gets from our group.

 

Our planned ELGs can be tracked from our long term plans, through the medium term plans and into our short term plans. Our daily child assessments on the ELGs can then be colour coded accordding to the stepping stones onto a child/group tracking sheet which then informs our planning for the following half term.

 

Happy assessing

 

Carol

[Guest]

Hi Becky,

 

As a reception teacher i would love and treasure any info about children coming into my class. With my present year group i got absolutly no info on any child which made things very difficult for the first couple of weeks as i got to know the children.

 

i believe that east sussex has produced a booklet called 'Stepping forward' which should go up with the child in sept which will help alot.

 

I have still not got my profiles and am now hoping that they will not arrive until after easter as i do not wnat to spend my hols ticking boxes!! I spent the last hol getting ready for ofsted so dont feel as if i have had a break since xmas.

 

well bye for now

 

kl

[Helen]

Hi Katielou,

The stepping forward profiles are being completed by most pre-schools (on a voluntary basis), but they are to be given to parents, who will the decide whether or not to pass them onto their child's school in September. Perhaps next year, if all goes well, they will be passed onto schools; I hope so

[Guest]

Hi Katielou and Helen,

 

I think it would just makes so much sense if everyone could run in line with everyone else! I really respect your opinion Katielou and only wish that all reception class teachers thought like you. Why doesn't everyone use the FSP for the 'Foundation' (which doesn't just start in reception!) stage and then it would be less paperwork and more useful observation and assessment happening in pre-schools.

 

The 'Stepping Forward' profiles are great I really like the look of them. It would be great to see these passed onto schools to really validate there worth. Lets hope this happens.

[Guest]

Hi Debatees

Re:nursery settings filling in FSP's. I think its fairly obvious that it would be best all round if FSP's were to be started at pre-school settings and continued in Reception class. Problems may occur when school's like my own don't have a pre-school setting which solely or even mainly feed into it. This would mean that I would be receiving FSP's from a large variety of settings with the obvious if only slight differences in assessment opinions. Add this to the minority of private settings in whose best interest it is to show that the child has moved on regardless and you have the beginnings of a massive headache for the Reception teacher. Also as mentioned by a previous contributor you then might find yourself having to fill in section 9 in all areas for a few children - at our FSP training seminar we were told it would be fairly rare to have to fill in this section.

In my school I am given time to make a home visit for all the new Rec children and it is at this time that I make my initial assessments of the child's ability by carrying out a few simple tasks with the child while reading to and chatting with him/her. It is also quite common during these visits for the parent to produce the child's nursery record/profile and to discuss what the child has been achieving.

I find that this initial assessment is invaluable and I'm hoping that along with baseline testing which I still carry out during the first couple of months at school it will help me fill out many of the initial tick boxes on the profile. I repeat what was stressed at our FSP training - moderators will NOT be looking for mountains of paper to back up teacher assessments. They will be presuming that teachers have exercised professionalism in their judgements and this will hopefully be reinforced by the quality of work/play being carried out in the classroom.

[Guest]

Hi Jen,

Thank you so much for your reply on the subject. I have only just noticed it, as there were quite a few replies to my early morning post on the thread.

I am currently having discussions with our local primary school's reception class trying to convince her that if our setting start the FSP, then this will help her intial intake observations.

She needs to put her trust in us as practitioners and use the results of our findings to take the load off of the FSP.

I will report back if we can come up with an agreement.

[Helen]

Looking forward to that, Becky! An understanding between pre-school practitioners and reception teachers is essential if we are going to pass on FSPs. let us know what you agree

[Helen]

Hi everyone,

I attended the LEA Profile training yesterday, and found it a very positive experience. I came away with two main points:

1) That standing back and observing the children is a substantial part of the job, and must be seen as such. One teacher yesterday expressed concerns that Ofsted may see that behaviour as not "teaching" but she was reassured by the training team that Ofsted teams must now have a FS trained person to inspect reception classes. At this point, I was brave enough to admit to my immediate colleagues on the course that we haven't done any formal planning for half a term ( ); we have concentrated on getting a workable observation programme going. It's been brilliant;all the staff really feel they know the Guidance document much better, they are very much more familiar with the stepping stones, and they have huge amounts of information on the children, and their next steps for learning.

2) If the FSP is to be started in pre-schools, it needs to be a different layout to allow for more comments space in the stepping stones section; after all, the stepping stones are generally going to be the main area of concern in pre-school. This would then naturally form an area for pre-school comments, followed by the ELGs and an area for reception comments. I know there'll be an overlap for certain children, but that would be OK. This would also reassure reception teachers that all their new intake are unlikely to have completed every single ELG on arrival!

[Guest]

Newbie here - but I've never been one for sitting quietly anyhow - so here goes

 

I went on the LEA training for the profiles up here (Durham) a couple of weeks ago - after having got over the "oh my God" factor when the file arrived. The main points that came out of the training appeared to be...

1. Tiaras are NOT compulsory - about 150 reception teachers hit the floor with laughter at this point in the video

2. Completion of the booklet isn't compulsory - it's the assessing the child against the 13 scale points that is the key part - we've got the scale points condensed into a 3 page school document to save on paperwork - and make it easier to store and go through to mark up

3. Durham have tied their Flying Start baseline statements into the profiles - so by doing the baseline you can actually complete a lot of the profile initially - and they still seem to be keen to get baseline done to calculate value added etc.

4. Because there are only 3 points in each scale that are pre-ELG level, there needs to be some form of additional assessment in place when the children enter reception (baseline was what was being hinted at) as lots of children will enter the class not scoring many ticks on the profile at all.

 

... think those were the main things that came out of the training we got. From what they were saying it's not really going to be appropriate for a lot of nursery children because they won't score on many profile points at all - with the points being pitched toward the later end of the F/S stepping stones and ELG. I've got a document I'm going to start trafficlighting with ALL the stepping stones and ELGs on - orange the first time I see evidence of it - green when it's being displayed consistently - with only me and a part time assistant there isn't as much gathering of information from different staff as some of you seem to have. I figure spending half an hour a week running through it with a highlighter and making notes on the back of each sheet is breaking it down to a do-able level.

 

And hey - I've just realised I almost sound like I know what I'm talking about - kind of losing the feeling of bluffing it with being an NQT this year.

 

Quite HOW I'm going to do this observation time with 10 year 1s in the class and only help in on a mornings I do NOT know though

 

As for nursery info - I got all the standard Durham baseline sheets through for my class - a system we continue so we do currently have some consistency with it... however when the nursery documents show up in January like some did - it makes it a bit trickier! (We have a number of schools on the site and the post doesn't half get confused at times)

[Helen]

Hi Dizzyblonde, and welcome

What, you mean you aren't going to put in a claim to the LEA for a platinum diamond-encrusted creation? You do surprise me

I totally agree with your point4; especially if pre-schools are going to begin completing profiles which will then go up to reception.

What nursery documents do you receive? Are they helpful or wuld you still do the baseline-type assessments anyway?

[Guest]

I think the LEA are pretty keen for the standard baseline documents to continue to be used from what we're getting passed down the line to us. We tend to get a mix of documents depending on where the children come from (we take pupils from about 4 or 5 different nurseries because we have a huge catchment - a rural Catholic school) - some send us the child's entire nursery profile book, some just send us the baseline sheets - and I've found the level they rate the child at is often quite different to the level they're at when they reach us (but obviously there's the fact that children slip back over the summer and that we're a new setting for them to consider there).

 

I'd still tend to do the baseline assessments fresh anyhow - more than anything else we're due Ofsted so need to be able to prove our value-added and the baseline's the only real thing that fits the bill - it's useful to know what level they left nursery at so we can spot any inconsistencies, children that haven't settled and made the transition well etc.

[mundia]

It has made really interesting reading finding out what others think about the FSP. Here's my soapbox.....

The one thing that nags me more than anything is that they are still very literacy/numeracy biased with more than half of the scales for lit/num but only 1 for the huge area of knowledge and understanding. I feel that this gives even more ammunition to the year 1 teachers and lit/num coordinators to pressurise us into a heavily loaded curriculum which was never the intention of the curriculum guidance. I think there is real danger of an assessment led curriculum which I think we have so far avoided but which we know puts pressure on other years group teachers.

I am pleased to see that observation gets the prominent place it deserves and many of us have been doing that for years anyway, you soon get used to it once it becomes a normal part of your practice. But as usual, not enough thoght has been given to the amount of time needed to fit evrything in and complete the booklets.

We certainly could not share ours with our parenst- the vast majority to do not read english and there is no means by which to transalte them into urdu/arabic/bengali. Our parents would lose the will to live if we went through every page at a parents evening explaining what they all meant and often having to do it through an older sibling translating (so we have no idea what they are saying!!!). This means that we have to conytinue with our current reports, so even more work.

With regard to using them in nursery, I know that the project team form Birmigham tried hard to persuade QCA to have a phase assessment rather than a reception only one, but to no avail. We have just trialled the new baseline which fits in to the bottom of the FSP and I should imagine other LEAS will be doing something similar in the next year.

There also needs to be far more taraining than there has been. Year 1 teachers need to undersatnd what they are receiving next year and support staff need to know what they are supposed to be supporting. We have had 1 teacher go on a half day course- thats it.

And no I will not wear the tiara...