mundia Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 As far as we are aware this will just be a few children for us this year, but they are scattered and I think this could make for difficulties in ensuring the settings get the support they need without feeling isolated. A couple have already said 'but we are not teachers' and are concerned that they will be expected to teach skills they have no experience or training in doing. When I was a CC teacher we also had a good knowledge of chidlren who were not starting school with their peers, and big part of my job then became providing support for them. This came out of having a good relationship with the settings in our reach area and asking them. It also came from knowing which chidlren were on waiting lists at school and who had not been allocated places (which was the problem then, not choice by parents but just not getting the school they wanted). I supported directly into the settings, especially with phonics and ensuring that the everyday provision provided greater challenge for those older children. It wasn't an ideal set up but it was the best we could organise at the time. But of course many LAs are without both CC teachers, and EYATs now, so where does that leave them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 (edited) I haven't actually had an experience of this as the one or two children it almost happened with moved to reception with their peers at the last minute. However I do agree that, certainly in my area, there is a lack of confidence in teaching skills amongst PVI practitioners especially for CLL. Additionally there is a very great lack of joined up working between PVI and maintained settings, sometimes due to the PVI settings and sometimes due to the maintained settings. Our LA set up CLL clusters and were meant to be moving to overcome this by having local meetings for both types of provision which I was personally very excited about (I know - sad aren't I?). Unfortunately due to cuts this hasn't happened and the two types of settings remain very separate except in specific partnerships where PVI staff/reception teachers have made concerted efforts to forge links. From what I've read of other comments on this thread if this was something you could achieve, using the CLL attainment as a focus, I think you would be doing all the children in your area a huge service, not just those who stayed in PVI settings until Year 1. It saddens me greatly that my LA hasn't been able to carry this out, although I understand it is due to budget cuts and not necessarily the lack of will from some parties. Edited June 11, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 sorry catma i wasn't sure wether first class was universal! ...it is basically an intranet system that joins all settings together (schools/pvi/cc etc also support systems) I think in our area pvi settings seem to be doing well at attaining good profile points...but the level we are suggesting here for phonics especially is way beyond what the profile would suggest isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 sorry catma i wasn't sure whether first class was universal! ...it is basically an intranet system that joins all settings together (schools/pvi/cc etc also support systems)I think in our area pvi settings seem to be doing well at attaining good profile points...but the level we are suggesting here for phonics especially is way beyond what the profile would suggest isn't it? Well with a secure phase 2+ from memory they would be able to attain scale points 1-7 in LSL which would be a good outcome for sure. However if they are to be at phase 6 by the end of Yr2 so they are at national expectations ie NC level 2+ they do need to be at phase 3+. If they enter Yr1 only starting phase 2 they are very behind already. It's not just skills but a body of knowledge as well. A linked intranet sound brilliant - unfortunately we don't have that! I have to rely on old skool methods of paper and string in tin cans!!! Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finleysmaid Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 thanks catma..i understand . Interesting information and probably the sort of thing that all settings like mine who take children in their profile year need to know (i suspect i will have 3/4 at the beginning of september) and my nearly five year old still has no place...and yet all my 4 year olds have been allocated back to speak to the boroughs again next week. I asked my advisor what to do if they dont find him a place (would be illegal of course) and she said keep him with me! so that would mean i would have to teach him NC1 ...OMG! anyway i know that won't happen but as to first class if would like to know more here is the link http://www.firstclass.com/Divisions/Soluti...tion/?Plugin=FC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Thanks all - I do love a forum where you can have a good debate!! Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueFinanceManager Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thanks all - I do love a forum where you can have a good debate!!Cx I have been reading this topic with interest but not contributed as I am no longer in a setting but I have to say I agree with catma....been a brilliant discussion with good view points from both sides all done in a friendly, polite and professional manner.....most helpful to both sides I think. Well done.....gold star from the admin team to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have been reading this thread with interest. I have never worked in a nursery, i have always been in Reception in a primary school so i have always been fighting a battle to say how important we are at the bottom end of the school!! In and around of my area i have not heard of many children that do not start in the september at school in teh year they will turn 5. It seems most children go from the pre schools/nurseries into school. My own 2 children are both summer born and my little boy is about to start this year. At his nursery the others tower him he seems so little and he is not ready in terms of wanting to know letters/sounds/words like my daughter did when she was the same age. he is however much more sociable than she was more confident i know he will walk into school confident and being able to play with others and the learning will come and in good reception classes they will have the play etc. My concern is when children do come into school later in the year (we currently have a little boy who had been no where and then came to us after christmas he has done quite well settling in took a little time making friends and also threw tantrums eveyr time he was told to tidy up, or said no t something like a 2 year really, but if he had been with us since september he would have done really well) I myself would be concerned that if i didn't let my little boy start until the term after he as 5 he would be entering a year 1 class without any kind of 'school' experience. If he stayed at the nursery he is at (which takes until they are 5 and is fab) yes he would cover what he needs to social skills , cll, prsn, kuw etc but i do not think they would be then able to prepare him to enter year 1 where there are routines, the way how they deal with things, friendships in place, dinner times etc. We all worry about the children in the early years but until anyone changes the system for year 1 onwards. We are not like europe we will not be like europe- parents say to their children your going to big school now where you will learn to write and learn etc we have tried so hard to educate parents but then there are the pressures of targets on us/ofsted saying how much progress they have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Not totally sure this is the right place to ask this but here goes! Does anyone know if a 4yr old who could have gone to school in September 2011 (but parents choose to leave them in preschool) is entitled to more than 15 hours a week funding. I am as sure as I can be that I heard/read somewhere that these children are entitled to 25 hours a week funding? We have two such children staying with us and currently attending 3 whole days each week (their 15 hours) and there seems to be something somewhere which would mean they could actually do 5 wholed days and be fully funded. Any help would be very gratefully received, I am all googled out! Isn't there some fairly recent guidance about parents being legally entitled to delay their child starting school in the September after their 4th birthday?? ( I know the legal age bit but that's not what I am talking about) Sooo frustarting as I just can't remember where / when I heard/read it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundia Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 This weeks nursery world has a piece clarifying this, Gezabel. Long story short, it was considered by the previous govt but the current govt have said its up to LA to decide if they wish to fund any more hours than the 15. Im looking for the link, only read it today so it cant be far away.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gezabel Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 ah! thank you so much will go and find my NW was reading it yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 this 'debate' is exactly what I was looking for. In Spetember we will have children staying with us and starting with who will be 4+ years old. We are a billingual nursery and the plan is that these children who are staying with us/joining us will go into a French school which starts 5 going on 6! I have spoken to the LA about providing 'reception' class for these children and they were not that bothered. I have booked myself and head of the English team onto phonics training and profile training. We are using letters and sounds and have bought some jolly phonics stuff. Glad to see we are not the only ones worried! I shall share this thread with my employer so he understands my concerns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beauvink Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 Fantastic debate. Personally I worry about this country's attitude to early reading and phonics - its push push push for the children and they are so young. If you look at Sweden, Switzerland, Germany for instance, children do not start formal learning until the age of 6-7, yet they far surpass our children in reading, writing and literacy skills. Why - because they have been allowed to learn through play, they are secure in their social and emotional skills and physical development. Unless children have these skills many are unable to proceed into formal learning. Physical skills- gross and fine motor need to be really well established in order for a child to master pencil grip and control, often not fully established until the age of 6/7. These physical skills are compromised when in more formal environments as the opportunity to release energy, jump, climb is very much reduced. Take a look at this teachers TV video about education in Sweden, a place called Motala http://www.tes.co.uk/teaching-resource/Tea...Sweden-6038930/ I am interested to hear further opinion on the subject as this debate has been brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 ah! thank you so much will go and find my NW was reading it yesterday. May be too late, but here's the link to the Nursery World storyFour-yearolds deferring school entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 (edited) I have spoken to the LA about providing 'reception' class for these children and they were not that bothered. Probably because there is sufficiency of reception places in the borough, which is the LAs duty to ensure. Will these children become 5 before the Summer term?? Can't recall what happens to the funding once a child is statutory school age, but won't that be a problem for you? Are you a maintained nursery? Edited August 16, 2011 by catma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 As far as we are aware this will just be a few children for us this year, but they are scattered and I think this could make for difficulties in ensuring the settings get the support they need without feeling isolated. A couple have already said 'but we are not teachers' and are concerned that they will be expected to teach skills they have no experience or training in doing. When I was a CC teacher we also had a good knowledge of chidlren who were not starting school with their peers, and big part of my job then became providing support for them. This came out of having a good relationship with the settings in our reach area and asking them. It also came from knowing which chidlren were on waiting lists at school and who had not been allocated places (which was the problem then, not choice by parents but just not getting the school they wanted). I supported directly into the settings, especially with phonics and ensuring that the everyday provision provided greater challenge for those older children. It wasn't an ideal set up but it was the best we could organise at the time. But of course many LAs are without both CC teachers, and EYATs now, so where does that leave them? It's interesting that there is a perception that to deliver this part of the EYFS you need to be a teacher.... Would it just be CLLD or 40 - 60+ skills across the board? If I was to play devil's advocate I would argue that it's everyones job to know how to meet children's needs across the entire range 0 - 5 (although you may be specialised in some levels). You're so right about CC teachers.....I couldn't get to half of the settings with 5 yr olds without ours. Fortunately we are not reducing anything as our LA has a strong commitment to thr early years. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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