Guest Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Dear All In january a little girl joined the nursery, I do not know if this is the site to display this I just need your thoughts. She is 3.7 months old has moved twice since birth - father very ill - just moved nursery before coming to us. If she doesn't get her own way she goes on a distruptive mood, knocking things down stamping on children's work. she is quite bright, recognises numbers and her letters interacts with others but doesn't like the NO word or Wait word. I have tried time out - that doesn't work - seems to enrage further - Mum sayes she is a handful but do not want to worry her as she is going through her husband's illness Can someone give me any advise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upsy Daisy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 It sounds like she's had an awful lot to deal with and perhaps doesn't have an outlet for it at home. Children can be much more aware of things like a parent's illness than parents themselves often realise. They can also be very aware of the need not to raise the subject for fear of upsetting people. Do you have any books which could give her the opportunity to broach the subject if she wants to? I would try really hard not to react negatively to the tantrums and be very consistent and full of praise. I'd try using laughter and distraction rather than time-out whenever possible. I would also do plenty of obs so that if there is anything to worry about in the future you have some evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am on the same thought line as yourself the child has had to deal with so much with moving the illness - the trantrums are through sheer frustration. And it is so difficult to get through sometimes, I have tried so very hard on the positive approach - praising the litttle things she does - and I do get a response - a smile - or a nod. But its is so hard not to give a time out as I do not want the other children feel they can run around in the classroom and destroy everything in their path. I am struggling as not all people understand what the child is going through. (although they know ) Can you reccommend a book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upsy Daisy Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm sorry I can't think of one which addresses that. There must be some. Maybe someone else will come along with some ideas as they usually do. You could also try giving your local library a call to see what they can find for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 This child is communicating with you in the only way she knows how--her behaviour. She needs to be supported, as you are indeed aware but she also needs to begin to understand that her behaviour is not acceptable. Try to contine to reinforce the positive and maybe this is a good time to address behaviour management with all your staff. Time out can be a useful technique but it would be my last resort. Do you have a behaviour expert you can call on? I would also suggest that you keep a reasonably detailed behaviour log/ diary as evidence if ed psych etc need to be consulted to support you all. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Just a couple of suggestions of things that I have used successfully with my ASD class. I know she's not autistic but could be suffering from similar problems at the moment, i.e. an inability to effectively express her needs/ wants/ feelings so the same strategies might work... A visual schedule so that she knows what is going to happen next- this might eliminate some stress that she could be feeling about the unknown. Limited language when giving instructions using only key words, e.g. '[child's name] sit' rather than 'come and sit down now please'- if she's feeling stressed she might not be listening properly and will only hear the first and last words of instructions. Say 'now' and 'next' e.g. 'now story... next play'- this might help her to understand that if she does what you want her to do she will then be allowed to do what she wants to do. Some sort of reward chart- Make it visual and achievable e.g. if she does 3 things that you ask of her in the morning she will receive a reward before dinnertime. Make sure she knows what the reward is and involve her in choosing the reward (10 mins with a favourite toy/ activity). You can specify the things that you want her to do e.g. join in with 3 group sessions or you can just look for her doing the right thing and give her a tick/ smiley face etc on her chart. You can gradually build up the number of ticks or whatever she needs to get as her behaviour improves. A nice one that I've used is a jigsaw chart where she has to collect 4 pieces of jigsaw that make up a picture of the reward. I'll find an example and attach it in a sec. The most important thing with these charts is that you never take a tick, or whatever you choose, away. If she's done something good, she still deserves reward for it even if she then does something not so good. I hope some of this is helpful to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Oops, forgot to attach the jigsaw chart! Add your own photo of her favourite thing, then laminate it, cut the separate pic into 4 pieces and use velcro to attach them over the pic on the other part. Give her a jigsaw piece to stick on each time she deserves one and when she's got all 4 allow her to have her reward. It's up to you whether the pieces can roll over if she doesn't get them all but I would advise that they don't because then you could end up with her only doing one good thing in a day and getting a reward for it. I'd say have one for the morning and another for the afternoon. Make a few charts so she can choose which reward she is working towards at the start. If I've made no sense whatsoever or if you want to know any more about this, just ask! olivias_jigsaw.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) From experience another consideration may be that due to dads illness there has been overcompensation for lack of available time to spend with her, having a seriously ill father, ease of mum coping with each day and so avoiding conflict or 'making it up to her' at all of the above times by never saying 'no'...from the child's view if this has been over a sustained period of time then 'no' is going to be understandably a frustrating word for her... however its tackled shes going to meet it with resistance so you need to give it a reasonable length of time for it to work To be a little clearer as to the reasons 'I.e not used to 'no' or stress) i think your clues can be found in the triggers...is it general expressive negative behaviour or only when told 'no' or cant have own way? If its the latter then its going to be tricky if she's only hearing it at nursery as consistent messages from all carers is the key and mum is understandably got more pressibg matters to cope with than drawn out demonstrations. However no and wait are part of life and have to be accepted at some point, and susan is right she needs to start understanding what behaviour is and isnt acceptable and there are choices and consequences (its definitely going to be heard/experienced at school and will be worse for her after another year of getting her own way, bigger classes so less attention too) so although difficult and upsetting for all concerned its fairer to her in the long term The sensitivity comes in the HOW you tackle it, but potentially, if left unaddressed it could influence your group A supportive chat with mum around 'what do/say you do when...may enlighten you...and she may be relieved to know that her daughter is not heading to be a 'delinquent child' (that was one of our parents thoughts, bless) and therefore its one less thing for her to worry about and not dread hearing another tale of disruptive behaviour! (Though I/we/you know we share incidents etc sensitively parents have aspirations for who their child is going to be and still worry and feel they've failed, even though they haven't!) We've experienced overcompensation (staff and parents doint it) because of bereavement/divorce/disability/new baby A chat with your area senco may also be helpful and definitley aim for consistency Best of luck, keep us updated Edited March 12, 2011 by gingerbreadman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) It sounds like you're doing all the right things to help this child and have received lots of good advice which I agree with. Just to add my thoughts - as already stated, I believe that ensuring that all the staff are 'singing from the same hymn sheet' is vital, so responses are consistent and fair. That it is made clear that it is the specific behaviour and not the child that is inappropriate, to avoid the possibility of the 'self fulfilling prophecy', and other children potentially labeling her with the 'n' word. I think any praise she receives (and others) should be specific, try to ignore the little attention seeking things, to avoid negative reinforcement - whilst giving lots of specific praise for other children who are behaving appropriately. Trying to ensure that she has the opportunity to make the right behaviour choices to learn there are consequences to our behaviour and why, with the staff role-modelling alongside the child/children - i.e. "Whoops, I dropped the pencils, I'd better pick them up before I carry on writing" etc. (of course dependent on her level of development). I know children need to understand the importance of 'No', but also feel that sometimes 'no' can be used too often, sometimes making behaving seem too huge an ask. I think planning lots of activities exploring feelings and emotions, using the child's known interests if possible. Edited March 12, 2011 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Well said Sam and your post made me realise we actually rarely say 'no' in terms of thats the only explanation the child gets. We lean toward the 'explanation of why' or expressing it in terms if what we want to see them doing. Good point about staff modelling desired behaviour - its very effective - we have the male version of this child (not for the same reasons though) and its too easy to find yourself in a cycle of addressing the negative when actually they just don't know 'how' to behave in different circumstances because its never arisen and therefore taught/learned. I spent an extended time of just playing and interacting with him and showing him what to do when conflict arose or pre-empting and steering his attention to how other children were dealung with having to wait etc. it was incredibly 'overstated' dialogue and much more praise and alerting him to when he'd done it well etc but as the weeks went on (sorry, its never an overnight solution!) it scaled back the more embedded it became for him. He's doing great now, still has the occasional outburst of frustration where we need to step aside to chill and re-focus/remind him how to negotiate etc We have mum onboard and although its a struggle at home because she has other children, she wants to tackle it because now he's bigger/older/louder/stronger its not 'cute' anymore and far harder! When you understand the 'why' of any issues, the solution is easier to find and being pro-active rather than reactive is more productive Edited March 12, 2011 by gingerbreadman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I would just like to apologise for the poor grammar/punctuation/spelling in my two previous posts!! I had edited both several times, having replied via phone (tiny screen, kept jumping around grrrr!) but now I have got the laptop out I can see both are dreadful!! Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I can totally sympathise!! I never use phone to post here for that very reason!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I will use the suggestions posted. thank you I will need more help though. I had a really difficult day today - it started off okay she even asked to use the toilet and engaged in construction I gave positive praise - good sitting etc she waited to go outside told us she had to wait until 10am (our time to use the garden) even put on coat. We are winning some issues and noted in the parents correspondence diary and parents are pleased with the progress. I find the transitional times of change are the hardest, as once the routines changes (same every day though) There seems to be a trigger of...... it is so hard to pin point. I give children 5 minute countdown to finish off games and play before the music starts and tidy up. Dad came to collect her today as he was waiting outside the door he could see her climbing on the tables staff trying to coax her down, when she came down she opened the door to the garden and ran outside and staff followed. At the time I was writing on the white board, I didn't want to distress him however I did mention the behaviour and wanted to know if there was a change, said she was getting a lot better at home. She caused a big huge scene as she didnt want to go with dad and wanted mummy, there was distress from the father however calmed down and went home. She is not physical she does not hurt others however destroys knocks down, and runs around. We have a walking feet policy inside the room. She likes the big cars and sorting activities - which I ensure these are out each day adding more to excite and develop. I am a very patient person I really am. please please continue to provide me with suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 It is not just 'No" I would be frustrated if I was told no no no all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 As she's quite a 'big girl', can you give her an area of responsibility, like cleaning the whiteboard, or handing things out, setting the cups for snacktime? We've had children similar to this, and we often find that if we can keep them busy then there's lots of praise going on. We write notes to each other (staff) for her to deliver, even though we're only at the next table - things like that can be used as a distraction. She gets stickers "Billy Bunny says I'm a STAR" etc when she's fab, and doesn't get them when she's 'challenging'. A little boy we had a few years ago absolutely thrived on this - although Mum described him as a 'Hellion' at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Can you reccommend a book? http://littleparachutes.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Fantastic website, lolo, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Absolutely love this website, thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Can I say a huge thank you to all who helped me get through this difficult stage of this child's life. I have tried so many strategies and I think we have turned a corner. Still has a few stubborn moments but we sit and chat and return to play. thank you thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Great news - be prepared for a possible lapse after the Easter break - it happens sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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