Nursery Funding

[sam2368]

Hello everyone, I had an interesting enquiry for a place in the preschool I work in today from a prospective parent. She has been using a childminder for a while (didn't specify how long) and has only just thought to look into preschool for her child. As you'd expect at this time of year, and in an area where there's a shortage of preschool places, she's struggling to find anything.

 

Although this child is entitled to 15 funding the childminder has opted out of claiming and is charging £5 per hour whilst the parent has had their tax credits dropped because of the childs entitlement, so is finding herself out of pocket. I have suggested she ask the childminder if she can claim the funding and for the parent to make up the money so that they still get their £5 per hour. Does anyone else do this successfully? It seems very unfair that either party should be out of pocket doesn't it.

 

Sam

[redjayne]

That would be like paying a 'top-up' fee though and the funding states this isn't allowed, I have had a similar situation with one of the children at my setting and what the mum did was just claim the hours she used with us and declare them to Tax Credits and then pay the childminder direct . So Tax credits only deduct the 8 hours she used with us and pay the going rate for the childminder) May be worth her asking them if they will do that ?

[Guest]

I am surprised her claim has reduced - you tell them the number of hours and fees you pay and they work out how much you are entitled to.

 

Saying the childminder has opted out is over-simplifying the situation. Childminders need to be acredited in order to claim the free entitlement, which involves a lot of paperwork, especially if the childminder is not part of a Children Come First network. The funding rate pay not match the childminder's hourly rate so she may not want to work far harder for less money!

Edited September 3, 2010 by Guest

[sam2368]

Thanks for your replies.

The mum has been unable to find a p/s place so her child is with the childminder for the 15 hours. I hadn't heard of anyone having their tax credits reduced because of entitlement before, it does seem very unfair all round.

In the p/s we have the same issue of not getting enough funding per hour per child (X62 children) and I fully understand the childminders' need to keep her fees at the rate she charges - I wasn't intending to be offensive, just didn't know how else to term it.

Sam

[redjayne]

parents are expected to notify Tax Credits when thier child gets thier NEG entitlement ( I remind all of my parents of this as many don't even think about it and just assume they will be better off !) as they are not allowed to claim two lots of Government cash - thier Tax Credit is reduced by the 15 hours as the entitlement goes directly to the setting /Childminder. As Tax credits only cover a proportion of the cost of childcare and the parent has to pay the rest, and this childminder has chosen to opt out of claiming then the parent will only need to claim for hours at the pre-school (as I stated above) and pay the childminder as normal.

[Guest]

The parent has to make sure though she is still getting tax credits for training day and holidays as her neg is only term time only, best way i have found as a cm offering neg is to work out charges for the full year and minus neg, then work out what the weelky payment if for tc is

 

But if the parent cannot get a neg funded place then tc have no right to drop her payment, not all parents want or have access to neg, and also tc can be paid in full up till the child goes into year 1

 

As said not all cm's can offer neg unless on a network, most are dropping off due to lower rate being offered compared to hourly rates

[narnia]

slightly off topic............................had a phone call from a parent of two children informing us that they are moving in late October, due to hubby's promotion. Now, she uses a childminder as well as us and the childminder has told her that she can continue to claim her funding with both her and the setting she is currently using and the other setting MUST send on the funding for the rest of the term to the new provider. As she's not going to use another childminder when she moves here, it doesn't affect this one, she will continue to receive her funding. I have, on many occasions, taken children in and even when i have asked for funding to be passed to me, this has always, without exception, been refused by the settings involved, for many reasons, including staffing levels and costs etc. So, I have always followed the rules and given the places, free of charge and just borne the loss. I have explained to the mum that the other setting can choose not to send us the funding and we still have to provide the places for her children and now she's worrying about it, as her setting have indicated that it is 'not their practice' to refund NEF to other providers, as they have to accept children who turn up unexpectedly to them. All true, and i can see their argument, having been there myself, but this is two children, so double the loss, and for two and a half months! Have checked again with county and they say they wouldn't get involved in it, it's down to providers to reach agreement. so, looks like i'm in for a double hit!

[HappyMaz]

I've just read the Code of Practice - paragraph 5.22 states:-

 

Local authorities should ensure that, from parents’ perspective, eligible children are provided with the free entitlement as soon as they start at a provider, including if they change provider late in the term – unless this breaks the terms of the parental declaration (see 6.15). Local authorities should ensure that parents are not expected to pay for any part of their free entitlement if the child starts after the headcount date and should ensure that providers are funded accordingly to enable this.

 

I take that to mean that it is the Local Authority's responsibility to ensure that providers aren't penalised when they admit a new child part way through the term. It is the local authority's legal responsibility to ensure parents can access their 15 hours free, not the setting's. I wonder if groups will start to tell parents that they can't come to nursery in the middle of term. In my case I am already incurring losses because our funding doesn't cover fees, so to take on extra children that I can receive no funding for would be disastrous.

 

Maz

[sam2368]

parents are expected to notify Tax Credits when thier child gets thier NEG entitlement ( I remind all of my parents of this as many don't even think about it and just assume they will be better off !) as they are not allowed to claim two lots of Government cash - thier Tax Credit is reduced by the 15 hours as the entitlement goes directly to the setting /Childminder. As Tax credits only cover a proportion of the cost of childcare and the parent has to pay the rest, and this childminder has chosen to opt out of claiming then the parent will only need to claim for hours at the pre-school (as I stated above) and pay the childminder as normal.

 

So does that mean the parent can contact tax credits and tell them their child isn't accessing NEf so the tax credits should return to the amount they were prior to the child becoming old enough for NEF ?

[redjayne]

Yes - another parent I know did this - refused the NEG and her Tax credits stayed the same as before, as she was worried about holiday times etc and things getting messed up , she preferred to pay the fees herself. Tax credits called us to confirm this was the case ( she was full time with us) and all good.

[sam2368]

That's so helpful - thank you. I'll pass this info to the parent

Sam