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Hi all,

 

As a Reception newbie come September I am enjoying the forum enormously and thought I would quiz you all again!

 

I have just finished transferring all the entry data from preschools into my profiles and making spreadsheets to show their entry points! I have been amazed by the massive range of scores and wondered how yours compare? I have a class of 31 in September and their scores range from 0 - 100, yes 100!!

 

Is this normal?

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No I'm afraid not most children entering reception can be expected to be scoring between 0 and 3 on each profile area so 0-39 is the normal range a few children will score slightly higher but 100 would be a very good score at the END of the reception year

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I would think it very very unlikely to have a child who achieves 100 when entering reception - my High ability children were achieving that the end of reception!

 

I have spent time observing my new intake of children in their pre-schools, have chatted to their key persons and looked through their learning stories, I have a good idea of where the children are (most are achieving 1-3 on the profile). I will spend the first few weeks observing them also and will mark their baseline at the end of this 3 weeks with all the evidence gathered from pre-school and my own judgements. Is this similar to what others do?

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We have a very good child entering her reception year .She is reading CVC words knows all her sounds and rec numbers 1-10, She is able to write CVC words and she is scoring approx 70. She is very capable in most areas.This child has been rec as gifted and talented so a child scoring 100 would be brilliant in all areas.

Ours on average are from roughly 20 to 40

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Firstly welcome to the forum! (I don't think Ive spoken to you before) I started in Reception last yer and I did a lot of learning as I went along!

Agree that 100 is very high.

Also can I ask how you have a class of 31?

 

Lucie

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Thank you all for your responses - I have done the same as you KST and spent lots of the time with the children in their pre-school settings and although the child scoring 100 appears able I don't think she's 'that' good! I have recorded the data because last year we had our Ofsted inspection in the second week of September and were slated because we had not recorded the data, so I have decided to use it and then analyse it after the first few weeks! Not sure if this is right but like Lucie said I am just learning :-(

 

31 - well Lucie, admissions made an error!!

Edited by happyteacher
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So are people still doing baseline assessment using profile - I always have, asessing on first 3 profile points as they enter reception (with some brighter children maybe achieving higher in some areas, as already noted e.g recognising numbers to 10, reading cvc etc)

Or are you using development matters as baseline, I personally use this to plan from, not as my assessment tool.

Can't beleieve, after teaching reception for aaalll these years I am still confused.

I have spent many a happy hour these hols looking at my nursery data which has loads of children on what they call profile point 6, will have to have another meeting with them - no idea how they get there as they use development matters - showed them my profile handbook and aksed if they used criteria in there - but they had never seen it, they must have a secret code I must unlock. Keeps me on my toes though!

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Hi all - I love reading all the posts and thank you to all for some great disussions and advice.

 

I have transferred pre-school data onto a grid equating bands of months to the first 3 profile points, red for point 1, amber for point 2 and green for point 3. Probably be told not to do this! but I use it as a 'best fit' model, and it works for me.

 

It certainly helps to get a feel for where the children are and I then put it onto a bar chart which highlights which area of learning needs developing the most and I can then plan for this. One year it was KUW and the next CD. I then do boys girls.

On entry I do obs and some assessments and adjust accordingly.

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Hi all - I love reading all the posts and thank you to all for some great disussions and advice.

 

I have transferred pre-school data onto a grid equating bands of months to the first 3 profile points, red for point 1, amber for point 2 and green for point 3. Probably be told not to do this! but I use it as a 'best fit' model, and it works for me.

 

It certainly helps to get a feel for where the children are and I then put it onto a bar chart which highlights which area of learning needs developing the most and I can then plan for this. One year it was KUW and the next CD. I then do boys girls.

On entry I do obs and some assessments and adjust accordingly.

 

 

Hi Minxy (and everyone else)

 

I am just starting in Reception in September and thinking about how to do baseline assessment. It has been really interesting to read all these posts! I have to say I have never used this points system - would someone mind explaining it to me?!

 

It seems to me 0 is not achieving, 1 - beginning to achieve, 2 - working towards achieving and 3 - achieved? Is that how it works?

 

And may I reiterate what someone said earlier - do you "mark" the children against the development matters or the scale points in the areas of learning? As far as I am aware the scale points amount to 69. So in that case the top "mark" would be 207...but someone said it was 100! I am really confused - would someone explain it all to me please?

 

Thank you!

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In response to several queries in this thread here is my opinion (based on being EYFSP lead for my LA):

 

If you were to be using the EYFSP for your on entry assessments to F2 then within the whole EYFSP there are 117 scale point. By the end of the year a child should be attaining a good 78 points or more which would be an average of 6 in each scale = working well within the ELGs in each of the scales.

 

If a child was attaining any of the scale points labelled 4 - 8+ on entry to F2 then they are demonstrating that skill consistently and independently most of the time, based on observed evidence, most of which must be of the child in independently chosen tasks and at the pitch expected of a child secure in 40 - 60+. You have to be using the national criteria for all scale points otherwise it can be easy to award them without taking into account the same things as all other F2 teachers - we can put our own "spin" on them.

 

Because the scales are based on the original pre 2008 curriculum guidance there is sometimes no direct "match" in terms of wording, especially for the points labelled 1-3. However the points labelled 4 - 8 are defined within the ELGs and therefore are indicative of a child attaining the expectations for the end of the key stage. Hence a child scoring 100/117 on entry is an exception I would say. This child is probably going to need a curriculum that bridges into the year 1 outcomes if they are to remain challenged. OF course some child have a precocious skill in a particular area of learning but 100 would indicate very high attainment right across the board. You may not have anything to compare it to but I often find it helps to consider children with the same scale points and ask "do I see all of them working at the same pitch and competency with this skill". If not I have to query the security in awarding a point or not.

 

Because the scale points labelled 1 -3 are developmentally hierarchical children will typically achieve them in that order, unlike the points 4-8 which are of equal status. (The numbers have no meaning other than to act as a label for each point. Totals are the accumulation of scale points out of 9 per scale or 117 per profile)

 

Points 1-3 developmentally relate to a child's attainment pre the ELGs. Therefore on entry to reception children not secure in 40 -60+ age bands for any area should not be awarded points above 3. Matching the inherent skill set within an EYFSP scale point 1 -3 to the EYFS pre secure 40 -60+ though will allow you to match observations to assessment criteria - hence you can make secure observation based on entry assessments, informed by previous info.

 

Understanding the link between assessment criteria and the pitch of the EYFS that they relate to is a good way to quality assure judgements and help with building more secure data.

 

Cx

ages_stages_2.doc

Edited by catma
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Hello everybody - I am a new member to the site and am to starting in Reception in September. These posts have been very informative to have read and link directly to a number of questions I had in my mind! The last post in particular has really provided clear and useful information regarding the EYFSP. I am making a very natural progression from nursery into Reception but even so still have worries about my format for baseline assessments. Anyone willing to share a layout that has been successful to use? I like the sound of colour coding data too! As I am starting in a new school - as yet i only have paper copies of nursery data and limited experience of using e-profile. Am I understanding this correctly that some of you have already got e-profile up and running for next intake? I at this stage am preparing for baseline but am confused as to when the first data input should be...I was thinking October with baseline evidence? Can someone straighten this out for me please!!

 

Fi

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Hi everyone

 

I have been watching this thread with interest to see if anyone else has to analyse the data in terms of 30 -50 months / 40 - 60 months. I have been told by the EY inspector not to to use profile points to assess the children on entry but rather the the development matters phase they fit into. So far i have read through all my learning journeys and highlighted the objs they have achieved. I have had to do this for each individual child for a 2 form entry. I am now facing the problem of can this be turned into any sort of quantative data. Does any one else have to do it this way? or does anyone have any ideas for me???

 

Thanks

 

XX

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Hi everyone

 

I have been watching this thread with interest to see if anyone else has to analyse the data in terms of 30 -50 months / 40 - 60 months. I have been told by the EY inspector not to to use profile points to assess the children on entry but rather the the development matters phase they fit into. So far i have read through all my learning journeys and highlighted the objs they have achieved. I have had to do this for each individual child for a 2 form entry. I am now facing the problem of can this be turned into any sort of quantative data. Does any one else have to do it this way? or does anyone have any ideas for me???

 

Thanks

 

XX

 

This is exactly what we do and it was very useful for OFSTED last November. We count up how many chn in each age band for each area of learning- for some areas we select aspects- for example we look at each area of CLL and PSRN becuase they are basic skills are key issues for my school. We then calculate percentages working within each age band. This is also useful in telling you where to pitch your planning but as the year progresses you can see how the % change and therefore that shows the progress being made. We used these to demonstrate progress from entry to nursery to end of FS and got outstanding for progress because they help show evidence of this. Hope that is helpful! I've attatched a couple of examples

Writing.doc

psrn_aa_grid.doc

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The dilemma with using the ages/stages though is that a child could very reasonably be in the same stage for a whole year moving from just within to secure and moving on - 30 - 50 is 2 and 1/2 to just over 4!!!

If you are in a school where progress tracking is expected your children may not demonstrably make progress even if they have. We advocate the use of emerging/developing/secure or similar to provide some level of gradation within th bands which doesn't add other criteria but is based on TA.

Cx

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The dilemma with using the ages/stages though is that a child could very reasonably be in the same stage for a whole year moving from just within to secure and moving on - 30 - 50 is 2 and 1/2 to just over 4!!!

If you are in a school where progress tracking is expected your children may not demonstrably make progress even if they have. We advocate the use of emerging/developing/secure or similar to provide some level of gradation within th bands which doesn't add other criteria but is based on TA.

Cx

 

Yeah that is true and dividing it up in that way would be useful if thats what you need I guess- we just tend to look through the chn's highlighted sheets and using a different colour for each time you assess/each term etc shows the progress made since the last assessments were completed.

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That is a common way of doing it but the danger with that is it can reduce the assessment to a check list of the statements which are not for that purpose and in the wrong hands can lead to not moving a child on because of not "seeing" a particular statement rather than being able to say this is the developmental pitch the child is working at.

 

I worry when it is all about making the system used "easy" and not about having to understand child development!!

 

Cx

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Guest laura286

Hi all,

 

I am an NQT and have just started in reception. Even though I am FS trained I am still feeling totally confused with the on entry assessments, learning journeys and transition records.

 

I have received all of the children's transitional records from nursery and although this may be stupid I have no idea what I am supposed to do with that information? At the moment I am doing on entry assessments- seeing whether the children can recognise their name, letters, numbers, shapes and colours.

 

Could some be kind enough to explain a) if what I am doing so far is correct, :o to explain what should be done during the first few weeks of reception in terms of assessment and c) when should i start recording information on the eprofile?

 

Sorry if I am being totally thick!!

 

Thanks,

 

Laura xD

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  • 2 weeks later...

:o

 

Hi I am a newbie too and ditto all the above questions.

 

I am drowning in paperwork and never seem to have time to actually be with the children can anyone help PLEASE?

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Welcome to the profession and yes it is very confusing at times so don't worry!

 

I would use the transition info, discussion with parents and then my observations to then decide which scale points I would highlight as having been achieved. I would not sit down with children but play with them and see what they do. When in the class I had name cards for children so they would self register I could see easily then whcih children came in each day and picked up their own card to register. I would also notice those chidlren who could read others names and say 'Oh Thomas is not here yet!' etc.

 

Also ask your self why you want to knwo do they know thier colours shapes etc what will you do with this information? Look at Development Matters and see what it is they know and what your next steps are. I think we over assess in this country!

 

Make the Learning Journals part of the assessments so it all become manageable!

 

As I have said previously let the children settle in before putting y0ur first dates on your profile score let then show you how good they are! I've just returned from a trip to Germany and even as a very mature adults I felt really out of my confort zoen as I had to get used to the driving, system and even buying a coffee was a challenge until I got the hang of it and it made me think of oall those children beginning in reception in schools at the moment who will still be trying to gfind their way.

 

Lorna

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Welcome to the profession and yes it is very confusing at times so don't worry!

 

I would use the transition info, discussion with parents and then my observations to then decide which scale points I would highlight as having been achieved. I would not sit down with children but play with them and see what they do. When in the class I had name cards for children so they would self register I could see easily then whcih children came in each day and picked up their own card to register. I would also notice those chidlren who could read others names and say 'Oh Thomas is not here yet!' etc.

 

Also ask your self why you want to knwo do they know thier colours shapes etc what will you do with this information? Look at Development Matters and see what it is they know and what your next steps are. I think we over assess in this country!

 

Make the Learning Journals part of the assessments so it all become manageable!

 

As I have said previously let the children settle in before putting y0ur first dates on your profile score let then show you how good they are! I've just returned from a trip to Germany and even as a very mature adults I felt really out of my confort zoen as I had to get used to the driving, system and even buying a coffee was a challenge until I got the hang of it and it made me think of oall those children beginning in reception in schools at the moment who will still be trying to gfind their way.

 

 

Thank you for that. Sounds like I have been doing somethings right already. The children self register and are quick to point out who is missing. The teaching side of things doesn't worry me too much but at my first Inset day the head said we were due for Ofsted this February so want to make sure paperwork is ok and don't let the school down. They received Outstanding last time! Just feel so totally swamped by everything - so glad I'm not the only one!

Lorna

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Guest Pebble123

I have been told by my advisor to use my own judgements and the preschool records to assess each child against the development matters bands-entering, developing or secure and use this information to write a report which covers each area. It takes into account gender and age differences too. This can then be used to inform my planning and can be used to show progression later in the year.

 

Ive been told not to use the profile scores until after half term.

 

Sounds like most of you are doing the profiles straight away though so hope Ive been told right !

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I have been told by my advisor to use my own judgements and the preschool records to assess each child against the development matters bands-entering, developing or secure and use this information to write a report which covers each area. It takes into account gender and age differences too. This can then be used to inform my planning and can be used to show progression later in the year.

 

Ive been told not to use the profile scores until after half term.

 

Sounds like most of you are doing the profiles straight away though so hope Ive been told right !

 

Pebble123 I really do believe you are doing it right you are giving the children sa chance to show you what they CAN do!

Lorna

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Hi, this is a hot potato at the moment and schools feel under pressure from various sources to "prove progress" - using the Profile seems to be an easy numerical way of doing this but unfortunately it is not accurate when used like that. We are advocating a "best fit" approach using the phases (ages and stages) but not doing loads of highlighting and ticking off lists of statements. Making those professional judgements against age related expectations. We look at a child's age in months and then see whether they are working at, below or above the age related phase. We are saying to start plotting against the profile by the end of the first term. Devon have a very useful document showing how the ELGs, ages and stages and Profile points link.

I would be really interested to have a look at different methods people have in school of then tracking the children's progress across the year as we are still in the early stages of this. (thanks missc for your documents)

Thanks

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Hi, this is a hot potato at the moment and schools feel under pressure from various sources to "prove progress" - using the Profile seems to be an easy numerical way of doing this but unfortunately it is not accurate when used like that. We are advocating a "best fit" approach using the phases (ages and stages) but not doing loads of highlighting and ticking off lists of statements. Making those professional judgements against age related expectations. We look at a child's age in months and then see whether they are working at, below or above the age related phase. We are saying to start plotting against the profile by the end of the first term. Devon have a very useful document showing how the ELGs, ages and stages and Profile points link.

I would be really interested to have a look at different methods people have in school of then tracking the children's progress across the year as we are still in the early stages of this. (thanks missc for your documents)

Thanks

 

 

Hi thanks for the info. do you have a link to the site in Devon or is a general one?

:o

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Hi thanks for the info. do you have a link to the site in Devon or is a general one?

:o

Hi, yes the link is: www.devonldp.org/resources/view/id/105294?download=true

 

Hope it works.

Heyjude

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Guest LornaW
Hi, yes the link is: www.devonldp.org/resources/view/id/105294?download=true

 

Hope it works.

Heyjude

 

Brilliant document thanks Heyjude and well done to Devon!

Lorna

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We are saying to start plotting against the profile by the end of the first term.

 

We used to do this, but i feel that the chn make lots and lots of progress in the first term and this is lost in 'baseline'- what do others think?

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Guest LornaW
We used to do this, but i feel that the chn make lots and lots of progress in the first term and this is lost in 'baseline'- what do others think?

 

You say children make lots and lots of progress in the first term could it be that tthey begin to settle and then show you what they really can do?

It is so important that we do not label children so early in their school career and I worry that by base lining children we are doing just exactly that!

Putting in a summative assessment at the end of the first term does not mean they will not continue to make progress and you can show you have added value to these children regardless as you have 5 more terms in which they can learn all sorts of things!!!!

 

Lorna

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