Staffing For A Preschool Setting

[Guest jenpercy]

there is no requirement to hae a deputy for your deputy - after all some settings can operate with only 2 staff present - after all that would be all chiefa and no Indians (is it rthnically and ethically Ok to say that)

[trekker]

Trying to get my head around around it ...but I think they mean that if you are supervisor (Level 3) and you have a day off...your deputy (level 3) then 'supervise's in your absence so when this happens the suggestion is that you then need another Level 3 working that session..just in case the deputy has to deal with an emergency...

so they are saying that a level 3 deputy should not work alone with a level 2 assistant ...seems a bit over the top ...and expensive!

[Guest jenpercy]

Trying to get my head around around it ...but I think they mean that if you are supervisor (Level 3) and you have a day off...your deputy (level 3) then 'supervise's in your absence so when this happens the suggestion is that you then need another Level 3 working that session..just in case the deputy has to deal with an emergency...

so they are saying that a level 3 deputy should not work alone with a level 2 assistant ...seems a bit over the top ...and expensive!

 

No definately not. As I had not finished my level 3, OFSTED told me that I could run sessions provided that there was one acrtual Level 3 on the premises (or available for advice by phone) for short absences. Now I asked this inspector because my Level 3 Supervisor had cancer and was likelt to be off sick at short notice, and I have 10 years experience and I have run the company hands on for 8 years without getting my Level3 completedBUT

 

the requirement is Manager at Level 3 and half of all other staff at Level 2. This applies to all sessions not just overall. So if you are a 2 person setting who employs 3 staff in rotation, you will need to ensure that 2 of them are Level 3 to cover each other's absences, but there is no requirement for them to be pressent at the same time.

[Guest]

I have a deputy who said she was given the title of deputy after an advisor came to visit and she was the next highest qualified person (at LEVEL 2!!!), presumably they were told must have a named deputy so just wrote her name down, she doesn't do any extra work for the role. Then at my Ofsted interview the inspector asked what was the point of having a deputy if she couldn't do the role in my absence.

 

I'm so glad I found this thread! We're in a similar situation as Suebear, where the manager of 10 years has never quite paid much attention to legal requirements, such as qualifications and roles. After a recent Ofsted, she has been given quite a few action points, one of which was to appoint a named deputy. As it happens, apart from herself, I am currently the only member of staff with a valid Level 3 qualification. So without asking me she put my name down and then briefly showed me the letter to Ofsted 24 hours before our deadline! I felt pushed in the corner, because if I had said no to it, she would have been unable to satisfy Ofsted.

I have only started working at this nursery school 3 months ago and it has not been a smooth ride. The current manager has very old-fashioned views on discipline and ways children learn and has been extremely resistant to reflect on her practice. She is also very reluctant to delegate any responsibilities, I still haven't seen a single registration form (not even for my key-children!)

She has been very unsupportive with my studies (I'm currently doing the FDEY) and told me - in writing - that my studies must not interfere with the spirit of the school!

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really want to become deputy manager of a setting which I feel has many issues, unless I am able to make some quality improvements.

Help! What shall I do?

 

 

Titania

[Guest jenpercy]

I'm so glad I found this thread! We're in a similar situation as Suebear, where the manager of 10 years has never quite paid much attention to legal requirements, such as qualifications and roles. After a recent Ofsted, she has been given quite a few action points, one of which was to appoint a named deputy. As it happens, apart from herself, I am currently the only member of staff with a valid Level 3 qualification. So without asking me she put my name down and then briefly showed me the letter to Ofsted 24 hours before our deadline! I felt pushed in the corner, because if I had said no to it, she would have been unable to satisfy Ofsted.

I have only started working at this nursery school 3 months ago and it has not been a smooth ride. The current manager has very old-fashioned views on discipline and ways children learn and has been extremely resistant to reflect on her practice. She is also very reluctant to delegate any responsibilities, I still haven't seen a single registration form (not even for my key-children!)

She has been very unsupportive with my studies (I'm currently doing the FDEY) and told me - in writing - that my studies must not interfere with the spirit of the school!

So I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really want to become deputy manager of a setting which I feel has many issues, unless I am able to make some quality improvements.

Help! What shall I do?

 

 

Titania

As a named Deputy, you must be capable of doing the role in her absence. OFSTED are quite entitled to come and quizz you if they have any suspicions that you are in name only. ~Hell, I have had staff refuse to have their name put down as Deputy without a payrise, even when had competant Level 2 to do the job and it really would be in name only.

 

ALL my staff have at least a nodding acquaintance with all our procedures and forms, even if I don't usually get them to do aqnything with them and even if it just so they don't say something dumb to a parent.

 

If she has a long list, it is quite likely that OFSTED will return and check up in person. you should go to her and say that as I am the Deputy, I would like to be trained up as such, in case OFSTED come back. It is also to her advantage, as she can now take sickness and holidays.

[suebear]

If she wishes for you to be deputy ask for a job description and see if you can have bits added that suit your needs. Maybe you could offer to help run a training day and you could discuss advantages and disadvantages of different styles of behavioural management??? Sounds like the setting needs you more than you need them!

 

Good luck x

[Guest]

If she wishes for you to be deputy ask for a job description and see if you can have bits added that suit your needs. Maybe you could offer to help run a training day and you could discuss advantages and disadvantages of different styles of behavioural management??? Sounds like the setting needs you more than you need them!

 

Good luck x

 

Thanks to you both for such a quick reply, I had a sleepless night over this and when I spoke to her today, she said this talk would have to wait until next year! as she is too busy with Christmas preparations...

In the meantime my name is on the letter to Ofsted. I haven't signed anything, but am I still responsible if O turn up? She didn't exactly ask my permission first.

 

There is so much wrong with this place I don't know where to start. I actually found myself forced to seek some advice from the early years team recently. They were very helpful and re-assured me that I was not just over-reacting.

The problem is the manager hasn't really got a clue about paperwork or her legal responsibilities. Before I started there, none of the staff had a proper contract- I actually ended up writing my own and got her to sign it! I had to include such things as sickness pay, as she didn't know about it and never before paid it!

 

I have more than once been on the brink of handing in my notice (she wanted me to sign it's 3 months notice - obviously I didn't), but having been there for a while, I have built very good relationships with the children and feel they need me to advocate for them, as manager doesn't really believe children should have a say in matters which affect them! She doesn't empathise or understand children. I once observed her telling a child off for not wanting to do an activity, because child was upset missing mummy. And this week a 3 year old 'Mary' was enjoying the nativity rehearsal so much she giggled and kissed 'baby Jesus' on the head, instead of solemnly standing behind the crib. Managers answer? 'I know who won't be playing Mary at our performance!'

I couldn't believe it and actually spoke up to defend the child who looked so crushed I nearly cried.

As this is a private nursery there isn't even a line manger I could speak to.

 

Right! Will send her an e-mail now saying that I am not willing to stand as Deputy until we have had a proper discussion! Thank you so much for 'listening'. I am quite new too this forum, but have already found so much help and support.

 

x Titania

[Guest jenpercy]

You could speak again to you Early Years Team if you need suport. What grade did OFSTED give you? How have the LA graded you? I got a satisfactory and my Early Years team regard this as a signal to visit and monitor my improvement. I am also a private setting, but I can't say no to all this help.

[Guest]

And what about a pay rise for the additional responsibility?

 

Good luck!

[Guest]

You could speak again to you Early Years Team if you need suport. What grade did OFSTED give you?

the setting got 'good' in 2009, how is anyone's guess. I have just found out that the last OFSTED visit was due to a complaint, so there is no normal report, just action points. But presumably they will come back for a proper visit? I have worked in very good settings, who worked really hard to meet the needs of their children, who were told off by O. for minor things, if the same standards were applied here there is no way we'd even get a satisfactory.

 

How have the LA graded you? I got a satisfactory and my Early Years team regard this as a signal to visit and monitor my improvement. I am also a private setting, but I can't say no to all this help.

I'm not sure what you mean by LA grading, is it different to O.? They were the ones who after a routine visit made the complaint to Ofsted.

I think the main problem is that, whilst you see this as help, manager sees any outside agency as interfering, and talks quite openly very disrespectfully about LA and OFSTED (in front of parents, children and staff - it's so embarrassing). We have a staff meeting tomorrow, let's see what she says.

 

x Titania

 

PS I don't even dare to bring up the issue of pay-rise, do Deputys normally get an enhancement?

[HappyMaz]

PS I don't even dare to bring up the issue of pay-rise, do Deputys normally get an enhancement?

Absolutely!

[Inge]

definitely.. deputy gets an enhancement..

 

and in out setting had extra for the days they worked as leader/manager for the session, but I know this is not always the case.

[Guest]

definitely.. deputy gets an enhancement..

 

and in out setting had extra for the days they worked as leader/manager for the session, but I know this is not always the case.

 

pay-rise would be nice, but I bet she'll just say, she can't afford it. She tried that with the holiday pay, but I send her a link to the legal situation and she quickly changed her mind.

 

Also what is the going rate for deputy in a private setting? My last one was LA and I think their rates were quite generous.

 

thanks for all your support, I feel I'm no longer alone in this.

 

x Titania

Edited December 9, 2010 by Guest