How Many?

[Guest]

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me how many children one nursery teacher is 'supposed' to have? I am sole teacher in nursery expected to manage records, teaching, planning etc etc for, at present 50 nursery children. (got another 2 starting next Thurs) I have two TA's but they dont have any non contact time, they write obs on post it notes.

Very stressed'lookingforanothercareer' Teacher.............. : (

[Marion]

How many children per session?

EYFS says if nursery numbers are more than 30 per session another teacher should be employed

 

Where the size of a group of children aged three and over in a maintained school (except

reception classes) exceeds 26, it is good practice to assign an additional teacher to the class. An

additional teacher should always be assigned where the group size exceeds 30. If, in a registered

setting, the size of a group of children aged three and over exceeds 26, the ratio requirement of

one adult to thirteen children will only apply if two members of staff hold either Qualified Teacher

Status or Early Years Professional Status or another suitable level 6 qualification.

[Guest]

If your children are in half day nursery sessions they are classed as one fulltime child regardless of the doubled up paperwork and record keeping. If you have 52 children 26 morning and 26 afternoon you are deemed to have 26 fulltime children and the requirement is for 1 teacher-sorry its always been that way.

[Guest]

Hi, thanks for your reply by the end of this week I will have 32 children in the morning session and 20 in the afternoon. I just think it is unfair that I am expected to have an extra 20+ children but still only get 3 hours PPA time........................

Edited January 16, 2010 by Guest

[Marion]

If you have 32 children in the morning the recommendation would be 2 teachers for this time but a single teacher in the afternoons and you would only require 1 TA ...most nursery teachers have 52 children (as biccy says split into two groups of 26 am/pm)

[Guest]

Hi, thanks for your reply by the end of this week I will have 32 children in the morning session and 20 in the afternoon. I just think it is unfair that I am expected to have an extra 20+ children but still only get 3 hours PPA time........................

 

 

From what Marion says then it sounds like they should be employing another teacher at least for the morning sessions. I would take this up with your head/manager.

 

EYFS says if nursery numbers are more than 30 per session another teacher should be employed

 

Also is there anyway you could give your TAs tasks such as updating children's records during session time in the afternoon when you have fewer children?

 

 

EDIT: Oops Marion already said that whilst I was posting

Edited January 16, 2010 by Guest

[Guest]

My understanding was that ratios should not exceed 1:13 in nursery, and like said previously 2 teachers would be needed if more than 26 children in one session.

[Guest]

We are a PVI preschool with high staff to child ratios. We go for 3 staff at all times, even though sometimes we only have about 10 children in. I was watching the session on Friday (I'm chair) where they had about 14 children, and I almost felt like I should be getting them another staff member!

 

That is to say, I can't imagine how you cope with just 2 people and that many children.

 

Come and work in the PVI sector, we are skint, the pay is rubbish, the conditions are nothing like the state sector, but we would look after you in terms of ratios!

 

We also employ a separate person for a few hours here and there to do essential paperwork.

[apple]

SuzieC is it because you have higher staff/children ratios that you are skint?

[Guest]

Thanks to all of you who have replied. the HT is going of ratio of 1:13. I have a mixture of 3 and 4 year olds. Am I right in thinking that this ratio is for PVI sectors only??

The nursery unit I currently work in is for 52 children per session and in past times there used to be 2 teachers. I have questioned this as the building does not look big enough to hold 52 children per session ( I mean per cubed feet or whatever the entitlement is) but the Early years adviser disagreed with this. We do not have a full compliment of children as within the area there is 1 other nursery unit, a children's centre and a private day nursery.

My HT has said she wants me to take 40 children per session ( morning session is always more popular) After feb half term I will have 37 children in the morning session. All I would like is extra time to do the work. Teachers in school get 3 hours PPA but have classes of 30 children. I will ring union tomorrow and see if my w orkload is correct. Thank you all again...........

[JacquieL]

As other posters have said in a maintained setting the ratio is 1:13 and in the usual 26 place nursery that would be one teacher and one TA at level 3. PVI settings have better ratios but a lot less pay! Your 1:13 is because you are QTS. In a setting with 37 am you have to have another teacher as the number exceeds 30. Your PPA is 10% of your actual teaching time and that is the way it is, despite the number of children. Many junior teachers have classes exceeding 30 and they also have a large amount of paperwork even if the emphasis is different. Of course with the number of children you have in each session that workload would be shared with the other teacher as s/he would also have 10% PPA.

 

I sometimes cover PPA in a maintained nursery setting which is 52am/pm and there are always two teachers present, also two level 3's and one level 2. Everyone plans together but the teachers are responsible for writing up planning. The key-person keeps their own children's learning journeys, and TA's have their own groups of children so that shares the workload, and the teachers are responsible for keeping other records and writing reports etc. The TA's also have a short amount of time each week to keep up the children's records and everyone also fits more paperwork in when they can. I think everyone works something like that. It is never possible to get everything done in the time available. Also remember that your directed time budget may leave you some time once you have counted staff meetings, parent evenings and CPD.

[thumperrabbit]

Thanks to all of you who have replied. the HT is going of ratio of 1:13. I have a mixture of 3 and 4 year olds. Am I right in thinking that this ratio is for PVI sectors only??

 

Hi, NO - PVI are 1:8

I too thought it was 1:13 with a teacher but you can go up to 26 with having a TA/Nursery Nurse as well?

[Guest]

http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/151379

 

Appendix 2 of the document available to download at the above link tell you the ratios required. It doesn't actually mention anything about a 26 child maximum as far as I can tell, but it does say one other person in the setting must be a level three. Presumably you have a level 3 TA in with you, in which case surely they should be the key person for some of your children and thus responsible for maintaining their records?

 

I would get onto your union about your workload though, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's reasonable. Also I would forget asking for more time to do the work, it's unlikely that you would get it, rather I would set your sights on getting some of the work taken off you. I know it can sometimes feel like asking for more time to do the work is better and makes you seem more reasonable and willing but being out of the nursery and away from the children doing paperwork isn't really what the job is supposed to be about.

[HappyMaz]

Hi, NO - PVI are 1:8

Except that when an EYP or someone with QTS is working directly with the children (plus a Level 3 qualified practitioner) the ratios for children three and over can be 1:13.

 

Maz

[JacquieL]

Marion has quoted directly from the document and that is what maintained settings work to. It has always been thus. Teachers have clear and statutory guidelines to their workload under teachers pay and conditions, and statutory 10% PPA time. The HT needs to look at the guidelines and provide the correct ratios for the morning session, or move some morning session children to the afternoon, if not the OP can take advice from the Union on how to tackle this. this ratio has been the same as long as I have been teaching.

The 26 we have mentioned is the size of many nurseries, and this has been used here as an example as 26 am 26 pm being 52 children. This is quite normal not an abnormal workload. Some nurseries have more than this so the correct 1:13 ratios must be maintained. Once over 30 there have to be 2 teachers as well as a level 3.

[eyfs1966]

Sorry to but in on this thread, but doesn't it just seem ridiculous that we all accept this ridiculous workload???? (Note I am in a PVI not a nursery class, but I am drowning under paperwork, and really felt for the orriginal poster. Learning journeys are not quick to write up, TA's do not get PPA, so when is this work to be done??? Sorry, none of my business, but just had to comment

[JacquieL]

I know exactly what you mean the pace is frantic