Staff Turnover

[Guest]

The government minimum wage is £4.85 ph. My unqualified staff are paid £5.00 ph, my qualified level 2 are paid £5.50, qualified level 3 are paid £6.00 and my deputy manager is paid £6.50ph. I, as the owner earn about £4 per hour.

The staff responsibilities are increased as they become qualified, for example the level 3 is also the child protection officer, or the health and safety officer.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Nicola,

Thanks for your support and words of wisdom. I haven't sent a disciplinary letter yet, and I still have not heard from her. I will send a letter suggesting she contact me for a chat as I feel that the situation does have to be handled "in writing" and not just over the phone. She also has her daughter attend preschool, she hasn't attended all week either, so I have that to consider as well.

 

I felt angry and disappointed on Friday and I know I need to "de-personalise" my feelings before contacting her. It is difficult not to feel that her behaviour is a measurement of my management skills but yours and others supportive words have made me believe my instincts the it is not always my fault.

 

I'll let you know what happens, I'm sure with my "positive" thinking everything will turn out for the best, whichever way it goes.

 

Peggy

[Sue R]

Peggy,

 

I'm a bit late here, but I just wanted to reassure you that I feel it most definitely is NOT your management skills! Your professionalism, commitment and warmth (as well as knowledge and experience) come over clearly in every post of yours I've read! I'm horrified that you might even consider that to be the case. Have a hug (xx)

 

Sue

[Guest]

graciously received, thanks Sue

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Thanks, Peggy. At list I know what to expect

[Guest]

A huge hint for all you managers!

 

Money is not a motivator!

 

I have worked for six years at "government minimum wage". Our nice committee now like "round numbers", so instead of £4.85 per hour, I now get £5 (i.e. £15 per session). I only get paid for "child contact time + 15 minutes". That means 9 am until noon (when children are collected). I never, ever leave before 12.30. Often I am there until 1.15 or later (washing paint pots, packing away, cleaning toilets). Staff meetings? Outside hours!

 

And I still do it! Even though I have a level 4 (£5 per hour!) Maybe I should be working at a creche - £7/hr.

 

Motivators (as I know): make your staff feel valued (part of the team), give them tasks/roles (that acknowledge their skills), afford them continuity in the setting (e.g. give them key worker responsibilities), acknowledge their qualifications (EY and other), be willing to share leadership knowledge with staff, and allow staff to share their own knowledge and expertise with the whole team.

 

The real motivator .... wait for it .... is acknowledgement of competence!

 

Spoken as an underling! An over-qualified underling! But still an underling - who knows how to manage! After all, I was a "manager" in my past (professional) life. EY management is no different to general work management (as I see it). It's all about people - little ones/big ones.

 

OK? Who wants me? (LOL)

 

Diane.

[Beau]

That is very true for those of us who view this more of a vocation than a profession. I myself had endless difficulties with a previous committee and my main gripe was that they just didn't appreciate the number of unpaid hours I did every week. So to quibble over the actual hours and rate I was paid seemed an insult. My present committee has showered me with praise and appreciation - the result? I have worked even more unpaid hours than before but don't mind at all.

 

However, I can fully understand that young people who come into it as a 'job' would soon get fed up with the rate of pay and extra hours of paperwork, even if managers show their appreciation.

[Guest]

I have empathy with the "new"/"unqualified" staff in the setting.

 

They are here by default (as I was) - i.e. parent .. to committee .. to staff.

 

We (talking as a manager - but I am not) ask an awful lot of them. They are offered something to work at (that, hopefully, they enjoy). But then they are told "you need to know about national standards, FSC" and you now need to have a level 2 qualification "here's the info on distance learning (four of you are doing it - work together)".

 

No-one is saying "I'm here if you need help". The managers think they imply it. But, going back to my IPP days .... they blanked me. When I asked for help with planning a very basic activity, they didn't have a clue!

 

So, it's "DIY".

 

Except, I'm saying "I'm here if you need it". Unfortunately, my level 4 qualification isn't ackowledged by the setting. So, it isn't any good to them!

 

We need to develop staff, help them train and move on. It's no good saying to them "we want you to get to level 2 - and that's it". It might meet OFSTED's criteria, but it doesn't represent progression for individuals/settings.

 

Everyone committed to early years has so much to offer.

 

It's about time it was acknwledged. How do we do this?

 

Diane

[Guest]

Post script to my last message: Just in case it was misinterpreted:

 

 

Peggy, Nicola, et al,

 

If there's a job going - put me down for it!

 

I cast no aspersions over your management skills. I acknowledge that things are being done well all over the place (just not here).

 

Diane

[Guest]

In my experience there are three types of staff,

1. The ones who do it to "fit in with their own children" ie: the hours and holidays fit in with their family's needs. Sometimes they will stay after the children have started school, but many move to classroom assistant or out of the profession.

2. School leavers who enter via the 6th form / college route- tend to progress through teacher training and leave to work in schools.

3. Ones who are parents who are like No 1. or who's children have left school and they see "preschool" as the place / age range they want to work in, it is these who see the role as a vocation for life.

 

All the above types can bring something worthwhile to any preschool, if as Diane says their worth is valued.

 

I think we should stop equating "Vocation" as an excuse/ reason for making do with minimal wages. Because if we do this we minimise the importance of our responsibilities and the importance of caring for and educating our children.

 

Here's to a government that funds and places the salary of under fives workers on a par with other "professionals" who have similar responsibilities.

 

Peggy

[hali]

here here Peggy

[Verona]

I am sooo lucky with my staff. One, Anita (who is registered here with FSF) is my deputy - she has been with me for a very long time (about 20 years!! - is it really that long Anita?) I have three other staff, one has been with me for about 17 years. another 8 years and the newest one - 2.5 years, they all work full time. They all started as you said before, Peggy, as a parent and have stayed on with me. They are all so wonderful, we all work very well together. I couldn't wish for better! We all bring different things to the Pre-school - but the most important thing is that they are so wonderful with the children and I hope it carries on like this for many more years to come. I think they are all so wonderful I can't say any more.......

 

Sue J

[hali]

you are very lucky Sue are you holding them prisioners :wacko:

[Lucy P]

I wholeheartedly agree with you Diane regarding wages.

 

When i took over the running of my nursery the fees were approx. £12 lower per day than any setting in the area.

 

I fought to raise fees not only to up the wages but just to enable the nursery to run at an expected standard. (Although i own the company which runs the nursery it is situated on a naval base, so the navy have the final say on fee rates )

 

Last year we managed to up the fees by £7.50 per day which helped tremendously, not only could we pay minimum wage for unqualified staff, but actually manage £5 - 6 per hour for qualified. I truly thought this would end the rapid staff turnover i was experiencing. But no, they still couldn't be bothered to work to the standard expected of them, if they turned up at all!

 

On a positive note I am finding it much easier now to retain 'good' staff by having more money to play around with, but there just seems to be so many out there who expect something for nothing.

[Guest]

Thank you SueJ. Yes, it is 20years.

We are so lucky to have such a wonderful leader.

Anita

[Verona]

Thank you so kindly Anita

 

Sue J

[Guest]

Hi,

 

I know I started this 'pay discussion' and I would like to say that you can't put all young people under same umbrella. I was interested for pay in England because I never worked there and did not know the situation.

 

Thanks for informing me, everybody. I also can't believe that some people do not do planning, etc. We all have to do it and I really enjoy doing it. I also am not qualified yet, but I will be soon. I am even thinking about some other qualifications.

 

I started this job accidentally, like mum, but I like it too much now to give it up. I am from Bosnia and my other qualifications are not accepted in England. I went to University about Traffic, nothing to do with children, but this is the job I am going to stick with in the future.

 

I went today on Study Day in Education Center here in Germany and met this lovely lady who retired 2 times and then came back again in this job and I understand why.

 

I know young people need to learn a lot but also, if you do the job you love ........then no questions about that! I may not have all that knowledge that lots of you have but I am eager to learn. And some of us 'young' people stay longer in the setting than they are paid for.

 

My apology if I offended somebody, but it wasn't on purpose. I just had to clarify the situation!

[Sue R]

No, B - do you mind if I use that?????

 

No one minds what you say here, we all have valid opinions......if any one disagrees I'll thump them!

 

It's great to hear your enthusiasm, you are right young people's commitment! Hope all goes well for you when you come to England

 

Sue

[Guest]

Thanks Sue

Very appreciated

and people usually call me 'B' anyway, I don't mind

[Guest]

Hi,

Just an update on "Ann" I sent her a letter yesterday praising her previous commitment to her job, acknowledging that she is under personal stress at the moment and that I will cover her shifts for the next four weeks and hope she doesn't make any rash decisions about leaving her job until she is rested.

I reminded her that she is entitled to statutory sick pay with a doctors certificate.

I also said I look forward to seeing her daughter back at preschool on Monday and reassured her that any discussion of her personal life will not be offered or expected when she brings and collects her daughter from preschool.

 

My concern was that she is depressed through personal worries and that it is now time for us to support her and not put pressure on to feel she has to come back to work too soon. However, I hope I have opened the communication channels again and made it clear that I do need to know if she is leaving.

 

Peggy

[Sue R]

That's a really good move, Peggy!

 

Sue

[Guest]

Dear Peggy,

You are obviously doing everything possible to try and resolve what is a difficult situation. Hopefully she may take this on board when she finally makes her decision, however, at some stage you may have to make that decision for her. Your commitment in trying to reswolve this situation is admirable and I hope it works out for both you and her. Otherwise it will be back to the drawing board. Keep us posted.

Nikki

[hali]

Excellent Peggy that was a really good move..well done.

[Susan]

I wish Id been as well supported as that Peggy, when I was ill!

Hope it works out for both of you.

[Guest]

way to go Peggy

You have shown her your support and now it's up to her.

Well done

I wish there were more pople who did that more often.

[Guest]

Dear Peggy

A month on now - has your employee issue been resolved. Would love to know how it ended up.

Nikki

[Sue R]

Well said, Nicola!!

 

Peggy??

 

Sue

[Guest]

Hi Nicola and Sue,

 

2 weeks before end of term things were looking better, "Ann" bought her daughter to preschool a few times, but not as regular as usual. All the other children were very pleased to see her. She was however a different child, very subdued and a bit overwhelmed with all the others wanting to play with her ( they showed that they had really missed her). As for "Ann", she appeared to be beginning to cope with her personal life, I suggested that she came in "to play" during the last week, to join in with end of term celebrations, and "get back into the swing of things, catch up with what has been going on" etc, she said she felt up to doing this.

 

Then on the friday of that week she got a letter requesting her attendance at court, her ex partner wants specific agreed access to his daughter ( Ann has enabled access throughout their split-up). This just threw "Ann" back to square one, she spent the whole of the last week of term seeing solicitors etc for a court appearance on the 21st ( Monday just gone).

 

I haven't heard from her and will give her a few days before contacting her, so, I still don't know if she will be back at work when we return on the 4th April.

 

Another member of staff had time off recently due to "family" issues, but is back at work and keeping her home life away from her professional life. I really want to get this balance with "Ann", but recognise that this is easier said than done. I have to consider "Anns" ability to focus on her work while at the setting, as well as to consider the other staff who maintain a "professional" keep home worries out of the workplace, attitude.

The other staff's empathy towards "Ann" is wavering.

 

I think I shall have to set a time scale for "Ann" when I next speak to her, but it is not as black and white as that, as the last few weeks have shown, one minutes she's about ready to return, then the next something happens that makes it difficult for her to cope.

 

What do you think my next course of action should be?

("Ann" is also not entitled to "Sick Pay" so she doesn't produce any sick notes to me, she is now in receipt of benefits whilst out of work.)

 

Peggy.

 

p.s. I have decided not to look at any paperwork for a few days, I'm slopping about, being very lazy, and enjoying doing nothing ( well getting bored now) so I haven't reviewed the survey yet,I keep thinking about it but haven't actually got down to analyzing it yet but will over the next few days.

[Sue R]

You just relax and chill, Peggy!

 

Thanks for the update - to be honest, I really can't think off the top of my head, what your next move might/ought to be!! Although, I do agree that maybe a bit of a timescale might be helpful to both of you.

 

Sue

[Gezabel]

Hi Peggy

 

thanks for updating us on your current postion with 'Ann' I have been thining of you both from time to time and hoping that all would work out.

 

PEASE don't think I am being critical or insensitive as I don't mean to be! I really think your recent actions have been fantastic and gone way above what I as an employee would expect.

 

I think there comes a time when you have to perhaps make a decision as maybe 'Ann' is unable to. I am not for a second suggesting you sack her but maybe its time to think along the lines of an amicable agreement that she will not return. It could be that is just what ann is waiting for, a decision made for her, bringing some sort of relief, one less thing for her to cope with - hope that makes sense!!

 

You say the other staff are wavering in their support which is understandable and the morale of your staff team of course is a consideration and not forgetting the children too!!

 

I just sort of feel that if one of you dont do something it could just go on.

Ann sounds as though she is ok until something happens in her personal life and when it does then she can't manage the home/work and something has to give.

 

Of course the other side of the coin is that if you suggest maybe she should not return she could be devastated and be less able to cope in general.

 

Whilsst you may have great empathy for Ann, at the end of thd say you have a business to run and really need to know where you stand staff wise! All in all it is very difficult but I do think you have been superb I really do and whatever you decide I wish you and ann both well.

 

I realise there is emotion involved which of course I am not aware of and hope you don't think I am being hard hearted in my suggestions!!

take care and good luck