"committee Members Need Enhanced Crb Dislosures"?

[Guest]

Some help from you lot, please!

 

Today, in the toilets, I'd asked (very nicely) for the Committee's Treasurer to let me deal with the boys in there. She was OK about it (clearly, the rule - instituted when I was on Committee, years ago - is that only cleared staff may supervise children in the toilets; even approved childminders, as the secretary is, are not allowed to be alone with the group's children). Anyway, she said, in passing, that Committee now have to have enhanced CRB disclosures. She was quite forthcoming about this, but didn't have any idea where this dictat originated, and whether it applies to all Committee members (or just those who are Officers, i.e. Chair, Vice-chair, Treasurer ---- and Secretary).

 

I, very quietly, asked the pre-school leader about this later in the morning. Clearly, I "hit a nerve" on this! OK, we're expecting OFSTED any minute, and she's on edge, but as a practitioner who is studying, I have some rights to information on policy changes! Anyway, I didn't persist, and just said "Fine, if that's what's happening". She did, however, imply that this has been laid down by OFSTED.

 

Incidentally, we have a "parents' rota". Clearly not all the volunteer parents are necessarily Committee Officers (and may not even be Committee members). So, from my viewpoint, this can have nothing to do with the parent helper rota.

 

Can anyone shed any light on this one?

 

Why do Committee need the enhanced clearance? They have no child-centred responsibilities, and have no contact with children except when cleared staff members present. They do, of course, have access to records. I'm not quite sure what they have access to here, but I'd like to think that it's mostly administrative. My Committee experience (I did it well, for nine years) tells me that they need to action requests for exceptional funding (e.g. for children with special needs). However, that, and everything else, ought to be covered by signed confidentiality agreements (I'd like to think that these are in place, but I dare not ask).

 

Help, please! Has anyone encountered this?

 

 

Diane.

[Guest]

Hi dianne

 

Can't really help you but I did find this

 

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/publications/inde...d=2817&type=pdf

 

doesn't really explain why committee memebers have to be CRB checked.

 

In my opinion CRB checks are not worth the paper they're written on

[hali]

Right.. not 100% on this will check with chair in morning ...but all our committee have had CRBs done as they run 'lunch club' so need to able to be on own with children!!!!! there are members of staff about but not nexessarily in the same room... as i say will chk out with chair asap.....

[Guest]

I agree, Mousebat, nothing useful there! Thanks, anyway!

 

Big thanks very much, Hali, for your offer of help on this one.

 

 

Diane.

[Rea]

All our committee have CRB disclosures. I would like to know exactly why they need it though as they are rarely on the premises, and even when they help during a session it's no more frequently or with any extra responsibility than a parent.

Also have the same opinion of the checks, 100% useless.

[Guest JPH]

All committee members need to undergo an enhanced CRB check. Although they don`t have any close involvement with the children during a session, I understand that as it is the committee as a whole that "manage" the group and staff, they make decisions that can have an effect on the children. I agree, it does seem a waste of time and money to check the whole committee.

[Sue R]

In my experience, whilst working in a PG, it was standard policy with Social service police checks, then the CRB with Ofsted that ALL committee members and all regular volunteers plus students on a long-term placement, that is more, than the odd irregular day, should be fully cleared.

 

It just was the policy of the regulating body, and often helped if we were very busy and a child wet themselves, as this clearance immediately freed them to do anything the staff did, although we only usually went that far in extreme cases. In my experience we only had one rejection - she was the Chairperson elect!! I had my first clearance when I joined the Committee 22 years ago.

 

To my knowledge that's been the case in this area for at least 20 years!

 

Any help??

 

Sue

[Guest]

hi,

 

all my committee are CRB checked, i was always lead to belive that even though they have little or no contact with the children, they can be used for emergency cover and the checks are already done.

 

also, as they are making decisions which effect the children and that they are in a position of trust, they are checked for any personal fraudulent activities, as well as other offences as all criminal records are looked into.

 

but other than that, i cant see the point, just more paperwork i guess, and we all know how much ofsted like paperwork!!!

[Inge]

As above- all commitee have been checked as they are the registered provider not the pre-school staff.

They take responsibility for the pre-school as a team or group and it is not only the chair that has the registration, hence the checks. They have to be a 'suitable person' as in the standards. we also had to have volunteers checked and students and parent helpers even on a rota so we stopped the rota. By the time they were all checked it got a bit ridiculous.

 

we always do the paperwork and submit it and this is all fine until you find the 'black hole' where papers go and are never seen again, as happened with ALL the committee DC2s last year, surprise when we complained and they checked they had them all the time, so they were all cleared by July when they left!!!

ho humm.....

 

 

Inge

 

I too have had to have this done with SServices when they did the registration, mine started 17 years ago now!!

[Guest]

Thanks, all, for that information.

 

I can now fully understand the "whys and wherefores", and have actually found mention of this on the OFSTED website.

 

I suspect that the manager/deputy in my setting are going to just move towards putting the Committee Officers (chair, vice-chair, treasurer, and, maybe secretary) through the enhanced disclosure process.

 

I cannot imagine that they will look at CRB clearances for all parent helpers: we have, sometimes, more than 40 children on the roll, and almost all parents have to agree to join the "voluntary" helper's rota. This means that we would be looking at a vast number of CRB clearances (especially since some families have two adults participating in the rota, for example 2 parents, or parent plus grandparent or childminder). If effect, if the setting was to continue with the rota in its present form, parental CRB clearance would almost become a condition of a child's registration at the setting. This could become an obstacle to inclusivity - since a family with problems may be unable to provide an adult who could satisfy requirements for an enhanced CRB disclosure.

 

This looks to me like a management nightmare for the people running the setting. Without doing away with the rota (and there are generally two parent helpers at each of the 4 sessions each week), there are going to be some grey areas for the general staff. For example, I feel that I would need to know who was cleared, otherwise I would not be confident in protecting children's safety and well-being at all times.

 

As said above - logistical nightmare!

 

Diane.

[Gezabel]

Sorry this is slightly off the original theme of this thread! I think it's not so much a case of who needs/doesn't need CRB clearance but more a case of finding a far better system for ensuring that people working with young children are suitable to do so. We cannot be too careful when it comes to protecting the children in our care. I truly think my enhanced CRB is not worth the paper it is written on - it was up to date and valid on the day they checked police records, DfES, Dept of Health and 'other relevant information' - Since it was issued in April 2004 I could have 'records' with any of these organisations and yet I am classed as having a current CB clearance!

[Sue R]

Hi Diane,

 

maybe I didn't make it clear in my posting, but there was no requirement for us to clear 'occasional' helpers, which is what our rota parents were regarded as by both bodies, only for 'regular' ones - we had a parent helper on each session who volunteered to come each week on the same session. Thus, in effect they were 'auxiliary staff'. we were lucky in that they were extra to the rota parent, and because of the regularity of their attendance were an absolute boon!! These were the ones we had to have cleared, and there was never any problem. Often they joined the staff team once their children left, thus were virtually 'trained' - at least, in our ways, and often had done basic courses out of interest - an additional bonus.

 

If this were the case with your setting, then you would automatically know who had been cleared (once it came through, of course!), but to be even more sure, a simple laminated list on prominent display would do the trick?

 

Sue

[Guest]

Oh, now I see what you mean by "regular", Sue! Thanks. That makes things look so much more sensible.

 

I'd see no difficulties working with a list of "cleared" people, but I can't see that the leader/deputy would go for it (we have three relatively new staff members and I'm not formally aware of the CRB clearance status).

 

Diane.

[Sue R]

Hey!! Who gave you that monicker, Diane - 'resident moaner' - that's a bit harsh!!!

We all have a need to let off steam sometime or other!!

 

Sue

[Guest]

Hi Dianne

Your parent helpers only need the CRB check if you are going to allow them to be unsupervised with the children. I would assume that they are not allowed to take children to the toilet on their own or they take children off into a separate room unsupervised?? In that case you are ok without the checks.

Linda

[Guest]

Linda,

 

Thanks,

 

I'm not as green as I'm cabbage looking! I know that!

 

My problem is that I don't know who is/isn't cleared. And I'm talking about staff! Now! I do not know which other staff are/are not cleared, so when any other member of staff asks me to do toilet duty, I have leave whatever I'm doing .... instantly ... and go there!

 

Imagine what it will be like when I have even less idea of who can and who can't!

 

Here comes my book .... the entire FD stage curriculum - delivered in the toilets!

 

 

Diane.

[Guest]

Apologies Diane!

Linda

[Inge]

you do not say what your role is , but as all staff and committee have to be cleared by Ofsted before they start work and have checks completed, you should be able to assume that all staff and committee have been cleared, it the committees responsibility if they have not been checked and you were not informed of this. If you want clarification ask, if no suitable answer is forthcoming if is ultimately not your responsibilty.

 

Inge

[Guest]

but as all staff and committee have to be cleared by Ofsted before they start work and have checks completed,

that may be so in an ideal world, but it doesn't always work that way.

As long as the unchecked person isn't left alone with a child as has been previously said.

 

Personally I think CRB checks lull pre-schools/nurseries in to a false sense of security. Isn't it a fact that a lot of children are harmed by people they know and trust.