Guest Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Hi, I've been told before that an EYPS qualification counts as a Level 4 (or 5, please feel free to clarify this for me) qualification. Does this mean that if a job ad says NVQ 2/3 required, I would be a suitable candidate for the job? And being a candidate is one thing, but realistically, would you rather hire an experienced NVQ 2/3, or someone who's an EYPS but has limited experience outside of the course. Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/
HappyMaz Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 EYPS is not a qualification in itself, but is a status conferred on those who have demonstrated how their practice meets the 39 standards. Its a little complicated but there is no reason why you shouldn't apply for a job requiring a level 2 or 3. A prospective employer would need to weigh up what you could bring to the setting in terms of experience and other skills. They might also ask about your motives for applying for the job, and the likelihood that you might leave them once you had achieved the Status, given that you might reasonably want to look for a job that requires an EYP and would hopefully pay a better salary. However, if you don't have a childcare qualification before undertaking EYPS you would not count as a qualified member of staff until you achieve the Status. Therefore if a setting needed a qualified member of staff to meet the welfare requirements then they would probably be unlikely to pursue your application. If I had two candidates in front of me both with EYPS and both of whom I thought I could work with and who would fit in well with the team I would probably go for the one with experience. However if I had a candidate with little experience who I thought I could work with and a candidate with lots of experience who I thought was a bit set in his/her ways then I'd go for the one I could mould into our way of doing things. It is never a black and white issue - there are always the infinite shades of grey in between that you need to consider! Has that helped at all? Maz
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Thanks Maz, I'm only starting my EYPS course in a few weeks time, so I don't have any qualification OR status yet. I'm just concerned because I've read that there's a lot of negativity surrounding the EYPS program. It's a huge time investment, one year for the course, and several months waiting for the course to start as well. And from the sounds of things in the press, it's questionable whether there's a sustainable job at the end of that time investment... Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ EYPS is not a qualification in itself, but is a status conferred on those who have demonstrated how their practice meets the 39 standards. Its a little complicated but there is no reason why you shouldn't apply for a job requiring a level 2 or 3. A prospective employer would need to weigh up what you could bring to the setting in terms of experience and other skills. They might also ask about your motives for applying for the job, and the likelihood that you might leave them once you had achieved the Status, given that you might reasonably want to look for a job that requires an EYP and would hopefully pay a better salary. However, if you don't have a childcare qualification before undertaking EYPS you would not count as a qualified member of staff until you achieve the Status. Therefore if a setting needed a qualified member of staff to meet the welfare requirements then they would probably be unlikely to pursue your application. If I had two candidates in front of me both with EYPS and both of whom I thought I could work with and who would fit in well with the team I would probably go for the one with experience. However if I had a candidate with little experience who I thought I could work with and a candidate with lots of experience who I thought was a bit set in his/her ways then I'd go for the one I could mould into our way of doing things. It is never a black and white issue - there are always the infinite shades of grey in between that you need to consider! Has that helped at all? Maz
HappyMaz Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 And from the sounds of things in the press, it's questionable whether there's a sustainable job at the end of that time investment... So am I right in thinking you have a non-childcare/education related degree then Mark? Which pathway are you on? I'd agree that there is an element of uncertainty about the EYP's job, terms and conditions especially for those who are career changers like yourself. However my feeling is that the nearer we get to the deadline for all settings to have an EYP at the helm, things will begin to change. Enhanced pay and status was never the driving force behnd my decision to achieve the Status, but rather improving quality and developing my practice. For that alone it was worth the hard work - and the feeling when you achieve is just amazing. Maz
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Yes, that's right. I've got a Maths degree, and about 4 years in Finance, so it's definitely the Full Pathway for me. Pay and status were a secondary factor for me in choosing the EYPS. I thought it just sounded like an ideal way for someone inexperienced and unqualified like myself to gain some knowledge. The added bonus is the chance to be in real work placements getting some hands on experience. I'm not big on theory and bookwork, especially for something like dealing with children. I'm not demanding that I have a golden career path all nicely laid out in front of me, it's just that I'd like to know as much as I can about how things are. From what I've read so far, it sounds like the situation of those who've done the EYPS hasn't improved any. For those who did improve their situations, they felt that they would have gotten those career advancements irrespective of whether or not they had EYPS. So I wonder what lies ahead for someone with EYPS who is fresh into Childcare. Anybody out there who's come into the EYPS out of Childcare? I'm not very optimistic about things improving nearer the deadline...that's 6 years away isn't it? Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ So am I right in thinking you have a non-childcare/education related degree then Mark? Which pathway are you on? I'd agree that there is an element of uncertainty about the EYP's job, terms and conditions especially for those who are career changers like yourself. However my feeling is that the nearer we get to the deadline for all settings to have an EYP at the helm, things will begin to change. Enhanced pay and status was never the driving force behnd my decision to achieve the Status, but rather improving quality and developing my practice. For that alone it was worth the hard work - and the feeling when you achieve is just amazing. Maz
HappyMaz Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 From what I've read so far, it sounds like the situation of those who've done the EYPS hasn't improved any. For those who did improve their situations, they felt that they would have gotten those career advancements irrespective of whether or not they had EYPS. That's interesting - I think this is an area where research needs to be done into what happens to people once they achieve the Status. Speaking personally, I certainly wouldn't be carrying out ECERS audits for my Borough or assessing and mentoring EYP candidates for my university. These activities pay a much better hourly rate than my self-employed status as a nursery owner could ever bring, and enable me to use the other skills my studies and life experience have taught me. Maz
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 (edited) I've (tried to) attach a file titled Evaluation Of The Career Developments Of EYPs June 2008, I'm not sure if it worked... [i've edited Mark's post to add the link to the CWDC website here where you can read the report, and have removed the file he originally attached so that we don't run into copyright issues. Mark has asked me to point out that although the report is labelled 2009. the data refers to research done in 2008]. Anyway, I don't know if you've seen it before, but that's where I gather that the EYPS hasn't done much for people's career developments. I think a year later down the line, the recent Aspect meeting a month or so ago also gave the same conclusion. General feel "on the ground", ie from forums and such, is also the same. From here we can easily go down the tired path of "There really needs to be detailed job descriptions and salary scales established by the government for EYPs, till then everyone is just going to sit around and hope for the best". Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ That's interesting - I think this is an area where research needs to be done into what happens to people once they achieve the Status. Speaking personally, I certainly wouldn't be carrying out ECERS audits for my Borough or assessing and mentoring EYP candidates for my university. These activities pay a much better hourly rate than my self-employed status as a nursery owner could ever bring, and enable me to use the other skills my studies and life experience have taught me. Maz Edited August 29, 2009 by Guest To remove attachment and insert weblink
HappyMaz Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 From here we can easily go down the tired path of "There really needs to be detailed job descriptions and salary scales established by the government for EYPs, till then everyone is just going to sit around and hope for the best". I wonder what the position is a year on? The trouble with something new like EYPS is that it is unrealistic to expect things to change overnight, however I'm not sure how long people will be willing to wait for things to change. I think the problem with an EYP job description is that my job as an EYP in a sessional pre-school is very different to that of Wolfie's in a Children's Centre. Perhaps a better way to go would be to have an individual job description which is cross referenced to the EYP Standards so that you could demonstrate how the EYP's skills are being used in the setting. Or maybe a template job description which can be tailored to individual settings? As for a standard pay scale as a small employer I just couldn't afford it, and I suspect most committee run/small private groups couldn't either. So unless the Government funds a huge proportion of an EYP's salary I can't at the moment see a way forward on that one. I was interested to see that almost a third of EYPS in the nfer study earned in excess of £30,000 - although of course that probably wasn't as a result of achieving the Status. Most of us in pvi groups would salivate at the idea of earning that kind of salary! I was interested to see from the nfer report that EYPS are not always benefitting directly from Government support via the Graduate Leader Fund which is designed to supplement the EYP's salary. I'd be interested to hear views from other people who have either achieved, or are on a pathway or are contemplating EYPS. I wonder if doubts like those you have expressed are preventing people from embarking on EYPS? Whilst I am positive about EYPS I'm not blind to the challenges! Perhaps others would like to join the debate? Maz
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Ooh, are we debating? I thought I was just whinging. Normally when I mention the issue of settings unable to afford high salaries for EYPs, I automatically get the Graduate Leader Fund response. People don't know how to respond when I mention that EYPs don't always benefit directly from the GLF. I think so far the government and the CWDC are more focused on churning out new EYPs for their set deadlines, rather than working on a sustainable career for them. There's all this talk about how many EYPs are needed by 2015, how there's funding and support for EYPs in training, etc, but there's little emphasis on beyond the training stage. Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ I wonder what the position is a year on? The trouble with something new like EYPS is that it is unrealistic to expect things to change overnight, however I'm not sure how long people will be willing to wait for things to change. I think the problem with an EYP job description is that my job as an EYP in a sessional pre-school is very different to that of Wolfie's in a Children's Centre. Perhaps a better way to go would be to have an individual job description which is cross referenced to the EYP Standards so that you could demonstrate how the EYP's skills are being used in the setting. Or maybe a template job description which can be tailored to individual settings? As for a standard pay scale as a small employer I just couldn't afford it, and I suspect most committee run/small private groups couldn't either. So unless the Government funds a huge proportion of an EYP's salary I can't at the moment see a way forward on that one. I was interested to see that almost a third of EYPS in the nfer study earned in excess of £30,000 - although of course that probably wasn't as a result of achieving the Status. Most of us in pvi groups would salivate at the idea of earning that kind of salary! I was interested to see from the nfer report that EYPS are not always benefitting directly from Government support via the Graduate Leader Fund which is designed to supplement the EYP's salary. I'd be interested to hear views from other people who have either achieved, or are on a pathway or are contemplating EYPS. I wonder if doubts like those you have expressed are preventing people from embarking on EYPS? Whilst I am positive about EYPS I'm not blind to the challenges! Perhaps others would like to join the debate? Maz
hali Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 ummm i'm pretty dispondant about the whole of childcare at the moment (still jobless) BUT: i can still say i am so happy i did my EYPS - i did it for my own proffessional development to improve myself and the setting i was working in which it did 100% i do not regret the fact i did it and am still very positive about EYPS as a whole - BUT: would love a EYPS position with lots of money - to start next month if possible
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Sure, I'll get Genie to type up your offer letter and have Tinkerbell fly it right over! Which pathway did you do Hali? As I don't hold any EY qualifications, I'd say I'm mostly doing it for personal development as well. Can't wait for it to start! What a pity I think classes will only be once a week for the first month. Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ ummm i'm pretty dispondant about the whole of childcare at the moment (still jobless) BUT: i can still say i am so happy i did my EYPS - i did it for my own proffessional development to improve myself and the setting i was working in which it did 100% i do not regret the fact i did it and am still very positive about EYPS as a whole - BUT: would love a EYPS position with lots of money - to start next month if possible
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I did the EYPS for personal progression, but I wouldn't turn down a pay increase . Something which worries me in the surveys is the seeming lack of acknowledgment that some of those undertaking and completing the pathways are then moving to work in non-contact roles. I'm quite happy that some of our LA advisors have done the EYPS as I think it helps them understand better what EYPs in settings are doing, but some of them do not have contact with children regularly and others go onto work in other, more administrative roles. How do these people fit into the statistics which say the targets of x number of EYPs are being met?
louby loo Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I did the EYPS for personal progression, but I wouldn't turn down a pay increase . Something which worries me in the surveys is the seeming lack of acknowledgment that some of those undertaking and completing the pathways are then moving to work in non-contact roles. I'm quite happy that some of our LA advisors have done the EYPS as I think it helps them understand better what EYPs in settings are doing, but some of them do not have contact with children regularly and others go onto work in other, more administrative roles. How do these people fit into the statistics which say the targets of x number of EYPs are being met? I find that interesting - after completing my FD I wanted to do my BAhons then go on to do the EYPS - however I could get not one penny funding towards my full degree. so I had to self fund over £3,000. I wanted a qualification rather than status plus I wanted to do the BAhon for personal reasons too. The reason I was given by my county for not funding me was- 'well if you get a degree you'll leave the 'hands on' and get a job with more money!.... I even agreed to say on after completeing but it was still a big no-no. Well degree finished... and although I love my work with the children I'n now looking for a different job so that I can recoup my financial loss's.
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 That's the 15 month one isn't it? Good to hear that you spent that much time and felt it was worthwhile. Is there a lot of self studying to do? For the first month or so, my timetable indicates that I'll only be in on Mondays. I was wondering if it means I can hold a job the rest of the week. Ugh textbooks... Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ i did the long pathway along side BA Hons
Guest Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Another casualty to the inflated salaries of the childcare industry... Coming from a schmancy finance job, I definitely feel my savings quickly depleting as well, so I hope it doesn't take them too long to sort out this EYPS pay scales thing... Regards Mark http://earlychildcare.wordpress.com/ I find that interesting - after completing my FD I wanted to do my BAhons then go on to do the EYPS - however I could get not one penny funding towards my full degree. so I had to self fund over £3,000. I wanted a qualification rather than status plus I wanted to do the BAhon for personal reasons too.The reason I was given by my county for not funding me was- 'well if you get a degree you'll leave the 'hands on' and get a job with more money!.... I even agreed to say on after completeing but it was still a big no-no. Well degree finished... and although I love my work with the children I'n now looking for a different job so that I can recoup my financial loss's.
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