Entry To Reception Scores

[emmajess]

I've been completing my profile on paper this year rather than directly into the eye profile. I always intended to use the eye profile, but time has swept away and somehow my records have stayed on paper. Anyway, now I'm transferring my records to the eye profile and I wondered how to record the assessments I made of children's scores on entry to reception in September. In my paper records I've got some assessments as on entry (ie September), then some as Autumn A (ie after one new term in reception). There is obviously a difference between a child achieving a point on entry and after a number of weeks in reception.

 

I don't know, therefore, whether to shift my assessments that I've called Autumn A (ie at the end of first new term) to being called Autumn B so that Autumn B means at the start of Autumn B rather than at end of Autumn B. If I do this then my entry assessments can be put onto eye profile as Autumn A. BUT if I do this then there is no label for assessments made at very end of reception year as Summer B would now mean the beginning of Summer B. So that doesn seem quite right.

 

Other wise, I could call my entry assessments Summer B 08, so that the rest falls into place. But that doesn't seem quite right either as I made these assessments later than that.

 

The other option is to not make any distinction between entry to reception and the end of Autumn A.

 

I know this sounds completely rambling and nonsensical, but I really hope you can understand the nature of my problem as I could do with some advice on this! What do you all do / suggest?

[Guest]

I don't know what to suggest really. We don't finalise our assessments until the end of Autumn A/beginning of Autumn B anyway. That is our entry data. We use the first few weeks to bond with the children and although we are making observations nothing is formally recorded until a few weeks later.

[emmajess]

I don't know what to suggest really. We don't finalise our assessments until the end of Autumn A/beginning of Autumn B anyway. That is our entry data. We use the first few weeks to bond with the children and although we are making observations nothing is formally recorded until a few weeks later.

 

Brilliant - I'll go for combining entry and Autumn a together - that makes sense.

You know when you're tired out and your brain is going round in cirles and you cannot think about anything oroperly? (Or is that just me?) Now you've said that, and I reflect in a less insane manner (!) my kind of 'baseline' thing takes the first few weeks, and children achieving points at the end of Autumn a rather than in second week of term or whatever, are settling in to the setting and maybe not demonstrating their knowledge and understanding immediately while they settle in.

 

Duh! Silly me (as my 2 year old would say...)

[Guest]

Brilliant - I'll go for combining entry and Autumn a together - that makes sense.

You know when you're tired out and your brain is going round in cirles and you cannot think about anything oroperly? (Or is that just me?) Now you've said that, and I reflect in a less insane manner (!) my kind of 'baseline' thing takes the first few weeks, and children achieving points at the end of Autumn a rather than in second week of term or whatever, are settling in to the setting and maybe not demonstrating their knowledge and understanding immediately while they settle in.

 

Duh! Silly me (as my 2 year old would say...)

[Guest]

oops totally confused there.....

I empathise - we assess during first few weeks, then again in December - and it all looks like a baseline assessment and they have learnt so much in that term, as Autumn is grouped as one colour - I have my paper copy so I know what progress has been made. Especially letters and sounds as they don't teach them at nursery (- consolidate phase 2 and do an excellent job).

[catma]

could you not use the pre entry marker for your on entry - after all you are just identifying what the children already know, not what you have taught them. Then do autumn a at the half term and autumn b at the end of dec?

 

Just as a point of interest - Is 6/7 weeks enough time to really demonstrate real competency? I think I would rather update 3 times a year. It's summative data after all and I would still have my ongoing learning journeys to identify day to day progress

Cx

[emmajess]

Just as a point of interest - Is 6/7 weeks enough time to really demonstrate real competency? I think I would rather update 3 times a year. It's summative data after all and I would still have my ongoing learning journeys to identify day to day progress

Cx

 

Not everyone's profile would be updated after 6/7 weeks, but updating it this regularly helps me be more accurate, I think, about those children who maybe aren't quite competent in something after the 12/14 weeks, but almost there. I can then acknowledge their achievement at the end of the next 6/7 weeks rather than waiting till next 12 weeks have gone by. I would want to see skills really embedded in children before I updated the profile for them, so I agree absolutely, the profile of the cohort won't entirely change every 6/7 weeks, but some children will have made notable progress in January, say, and I would want to put this in rather than wait till April. Does that sound reasonable? At the moment it's working for me and the reason I did it this way in the first place was simply that the e-profile, and now the eye profile had those dates available. If its a terrible idea to update this frequently, please let me know! But I am ensuring the children are really secure on those points before I give them.

[catma]

That makes perfect sense...I was just asking because we are trying eyeProfile out in some schools at the moment and I'm just curious what others think works best!!!

Thanks,

Cx

Edited May 27, 2009 by catma

[Guest]

I was surprised to see that the eyeProfile had 'got rid' (for want of a better phrase!) of 'on entry' as it used to be, and would have put 'pre-entry', but my authority wanted their on-entry classified as Autumn A - I guess it makes sense if we all do the same, as there are always queriesabout national/local comparisons (on-entry) and until this year we haven't had the data to compare (should we wish to!)

 

Anyway, for anyone who is interested, I did an eyeProfile data entry october-ih for their Autumn A stuff, and will do another in June for their Summer B 09 or end of FSP (as it used to be). In between times, I have updated paper copies (usually termly, sometimes half termly) as it's easier for me to do it that way.

[Guest]

One question linked to all of this that comes to mind frequently. If the EYFSP is meant to show what the children can do at the end of year R why does the data have to be collated by the middle of June when we've got at least 4 more months with the children? I felt the same when I was in year 2 with KS1 assessments. If they are end of that phase assessments then that is what they should do. Surely the data can be processed in the Autumn Term - schools have their own data which is more important. I'd be interested to hear what others think.

[catma]

you do mean 4 weeks not months!!! The data is callled for by QCA, they set the national deadline and it's in line with all other data collections. KS1 have the same deadline. (All in the ARA booklets) so it goes to dcsf collectively from LAs.

LAs might set localised earlier collection deadlines depending on their QA systems. Schools then get their data packs in our LA by the end of july for a prompt start in sept in yr1.

Cx

[Guest]

you do mean 4 weeks not months!!! The data is callled for by QCA, they set the national deadline and it's in line with all other data collections. KS1 have the same deadline. (All in the ARA booklets) so it goes to dcsf collectively from LAs.

LAs might set localised earlier collection deadlines depending on their QA systems. Schools then get their data packs in our LA by the end of july for a prompt start in sept in yr1.

Cx

I do of course mean weeks - sorry was obviously having one of those moments!

 

I totally understand all you've said but what annoys me I suppose is that it feels like the children are a lower priority than data and statistics but I know that's just the way things are and nothing is going to change.

[Guest]

I do of course mean weeks - sorry was obviously having one of those moments!

 

I totally understand all you've said but what annoys me I suppose is that it feels like the children are a lower priority than data and statistics but I know that's just the way things are and nothing is going to change.

 

excuse me for my ignorance but i was told by my authority not to do the eprofile with nursery aged children as you are giving them a score which is not what the EYFS is about, tracking sheets and the 'best fit' attitude seems to be the way forward, not to give the children a score based on the end of profile scores as some children may not score on the e profile and it is not a true indication of the progress a child has made?? anyone else use tracking sheets instead of eprofile in nursery??

[catma]

I think we're all talking about reception here....I am for sure!!

Cx

[Guest]

I was certainly talking about reception

[Guest]

oops...sorry... my mistake...thanks guys , thought the first message said entry into reception...i took that to mean end of nursery!!

[Guest]

We had to submit our 'On entry' data to our LEA this year. They took 'on entry' to mean end of autumn a/1st half term. So that's what I would class as on entry now.

 

Previously we were counting on entry as the 1st 2 weeks in september. It was a nightmare to try and get observations and assessments for all children across all areas of learning. Doing it to autumn a is much more manageable and there is more time to collect evidence and you don't miss so much.

[Guest]

We had to submit our 'On entry' data to our LEA this year. They took 'on entry' to mean end of autumn a/1st half term. So that's what I would class as on entry now.

 

Previously we were counting on entry as the 1st 2 weeks in september. It was a nightmare to try and get observations and assessments for all children across all areas of learning. Doing it to autumn a is much more manageable and there is more time to collect evidence and you don't miss so much.

We've only ever done on entry a end of Autumn A as there is no way we would be able to observe and assess 30 children any quicker than that especially as we have staggered entry!

[catma]

How much do you get/use info from previous settings? just curious as my schools still struggle with this one. (Even when the children come from their own nursery class sometimes too!!!!!)

 

They always say the children can't do what their records say they can do so they have to do it all again. I always argue that it's a marker of the children's previous best so they need to get the environment right so the children can demonstrate it again!!!

 

Do you use this in your eyeProfile as pre entry markers????

cx

[Guest]

How much do you get/use info from previous settings? just curious as my schools still struggle with this one. (Even when the children come from their own nursery class sometimes too!!!!!)

 

They always say the children can't do what their records say they can do so they have to do it all again. I always argue that it's a marker of the children's previous best so they need to get the environment right so the children can demonstrate it again!!!

 

Do you use this in your eyeProfile as pre entry markers????

cx

 

The problem we have is that we have children come in from about 8-10 different settings. Last year we had about 10 children go to more than one setting and the information from those places was very different. In one place, a child had achieved many ELGs while at the other setting she had not achieved any. That makes it very difficult to use the information. We have also had the problem that from some settings we have not had any information. (I am viewing the transition thread with great interest as I think I may formulate a suggested transition sheet for them all to use when sending children to us - does that sound ok?) If we were receiving the same information from all settings we would happily use it. I can sympathise with how preschools feel if we just reassess children when they come into school as it marginalises all their hard work. I've had it at the other end when I was in year 2 and they would go to the juniors and were then reassessed in their first week after I had worked hard on being accurate on the KS1 levels!

Anyway I would love to be able to use the information from our preschool - may be moderation between settings needs to be set up? Even having that information and using it for us to moderate the judgements would be useful - this may be the compromise that we can manage as then we are using the preschool info as a starting point. (thinking aloud here)

 

I hope that makes sense.

[Beau]

I think moderation between all settings is essential. Until this happens there will be vast differences in the information that is being collated, as everyone struggles to interpret things by themselves. There is no doubt that staff working in preschools/nurseries and childminders are doing the best they can for the children, but often this is happening in isolation. It is no wonder that discrepancies arise.

[Guest]

How much do you get/use info from previous settings? just curious as my schools still struggle with this one. (Even when the children come from their own nursery class sometimes too!!!!!)

 

We feed in from at least 3 different settings and currently we get different information from each setting. Next year it should be better as our LEA has just introduced a transition booklet that all settings are going to use. That way we have the same info and will be able to use it more as a starting point.

[Guest]

I have used the info that I have received from previous pre-school/nursery class in my current and previous authority. I use this info alongside info from the first 2-4 weeks of them starting school to get a baseline. My authority have developed a transisiton booklet for this year that links the development matters statements to profile points and the practitioners will need to decide how close they are to acheiving the point. I don't know the answer to getting standardised/moderated assessments from pre-schools other than regular moderation/ samples/egs as there are for the profile. It is certainly easier if the majority of children come from one main pre-school setting.

[Guest tinkerbell]

Hi Emma james

I had a very interesting conversation with the ofsted inspector the week before easter.She wanted to know the childrens on entry scores or 'where were the children 'when they started school?.

 

I am the same as you in that I do a baseline booklet in the first 2-3 weeks to find out where the children are (8 feeders,some information not all)but then I am teaching and the end of Autumn A scores have to be where the children are then.

 

After Ofsted my HT wants a rough 'ball park figure' in September (she does make me laugh) this will be from my assessments using baseline booklet not the Autumn A data.

 

I am concerned that these 'scores' will be 'rough' as I will not know the children in depth.

 

Tinkerbellx

[catma]

It's very tricky re using EYFSP scores - there just isn't the level of training for other users outside of FS2 teachers, i feel, in how to actually apply the expectations of the QCA to making a scale point decision. you have to apply such stringent rationales to making the data secure - it has to be inependent work 80% of the time, if they are not including parental views in the assessments this would deem them insecure as would not having all the adults involved with the child making the decisions re scale points awarded etc etc etc. I know everyone wants to demonstrate their children's best outcomes but without the strict application of the EYFSP rules it can seem sometimes that children have been scored excessively because the statements can at first appear deceptively simple. How many non school settings have copies of the handbooks? The NAA only supplied us LAs with 2 each for those settings with 5 year olds last year. This will change as different settings may have 4/5 year olds in different years, so there are many who may not have a copy yet who need one if they are going to send pre entry info to reception teachers. (It is now more available from QCA). It's very hard to make it all join up!!

 

Cx

[emmajess]

if they are not including parental views in the assessments this would deem them insecure

 

This is an area I find really tricky - I've made some progress with this this year, but it certainly doesn't cover all the scale points for each child...

 

At the moment we have our home/school reading diary, termly interviews with parents (which aren't long enough to do this in any kind of in depth way) and WOW vouchers which work really well as profile evidence, but which again do not cover anything like all the scale points for each child.

 

Are there any really good systems for this that you can recommend?

[Guest tinkerbell]

Emmajess (sorry about spelling your name wrong)

 

Catma Although I manage to greet parents am and pm,it is a school setting and ratios are far higher than nurseries of staff to children and there is not always the time to have an in depth discussion .

 

I find the reception parents are very reluctant to add anything to the childrens Learning journals which we send home every half term.

 

We do have a home/school book which we check each day and parents seem happy to write comments in there,although it does tend to be about reading.

 

I have always held a reception parents evening to introduce the new parents to school but this year i am doing an extra evening the following week just for the EYFS,I really want to nail the parents involvement and try to persuade them to contribute more to their childs learning journal.

[catma]

I know it's very difficult - it's just this year that QCA have been impressing upon us moderators how important this 360 view of the child is and how we must expect this to ensure data is truly reflective of the whole child.

 

I think you have to be able to demonstrate that you are taking parental views into account (and I certainly wouldn't expect evidence of it it for every single scale point Emmajess!!).

 

I think it's more about the processes you have put in place to enable that dialogue. I'm very keen on the idea of telling parents more about the "look listen and note" part of the framework rather than this is what we are "doing" info - then they can see what you are looking for which may encourage better dialogue when it does. Some of our settings have been using this approach this year but I have yet to evaluate the impact. I know they have been changing the way they write termly letters home for instance, and putting cards/post it's etc out for parents to write anything they notice on.

Cx

[emmajess]

Emmajess (sorry about spelling your name wrong)

 

I have always held a reception parents evening to introduce the new parents to school but this year i am doing an extra evening the following week just for the EYFS,I really want to nail the parents involvement and try to persuade them to contribute more to their childs learning journal.

 

Don't worry about the name thing, Tinkerbell - I knew who you meant!

Do you have any particular ideas in mind about the format of the EYFS parents' evening? I thought about doing something similar, but apart from pleading with them to contribute, I couldn't come up with much. I wondered about some kind of workshoppy thing where they discovered so much of what they knew about their child was really valuable and helpful. But I'm not ever so confident about leading that kind of thing... Any ideas?

[Cait]

oops...sorry... my mistake...thanks guys , thought the first message said entry into reception...i took that to mean end of nursery!!

 

 

So did I! 'Entry to Reception'? Silly me!

 

SP61HJ please feel free to use/adapt the one I posted if it's any use to you.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Cait