Teachers With Older Qualifications

[Guest]

Can anyone help me PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would a teacher who trained before the national curriculum have to do to update their knowledge ? Would they find gaining employment now difficult. The reason that I'm asking this is because I did my Nursery nursing qualification ( NNEB ) in 1984 and am being told that it is not a sufficient qualification now. After months of enquires and months of banging my head against a brick wall and going round in circles I am finally being told there is a new course that I can do to make my NNEB recognised as a level 3 BUT it is £700 and there is no funding available. If and when I passed I would get a 35p rise !!!!!!!!!! ( no I won't spend it all at once ) i have been in contact with the head man of CACHE who is not telling me that a teacher trained before the national curriculum would be finding the same problems as me.

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated

[Susan]

This seems most unfair, but how long is it since you last worked?

All the old- style NN I have worked with or am in contact with are now retired.

 

My own experience is that things are gradually swinging back and if you are after work as NNEB you would not be unable to support a teacher adequately. Refresher / new ideas courses in our LEA are open to 'practitioners in x Settings'.

 

When and if we want teachers we are looking for people who have experience and can work within Literacy and Numeracy hour structures. 1997/8 introduction. We do get OST teachers too though, through agencies.

 

 

Wonder what anyone else thinks?

[Guest]

I have worked with children since qualifying only taking about 2 years off ( not in one go ) to have my own children. I have worked as a childminder , nanny . I ran a weekend creche. This time last year I was the deputy at the pre -school where I have worked for the last six years. I stood down from this role as I didn't enjoy it. I am no longer in a position of responsibility.

I have undertaken one day courses in various subjects , equal opps , maths workshops etc etc , I have completed a food and hygeine course and my first aid certificate is up to date. I am not after a position of responsibility in a school my friend however works as a nursery nurse in a reception class and qualified a few years after me OFSTED had no problem with her and I regard ( probably wrongly ) that she is higher up the ladder than me !!

I totally agree that I need to update my knowledge but as I have already done the basics should not have to undertake a major course again purely top up what I didn't cover with my NNEB and certainly not at a cost of £700 with only a 35p an hour rise to look forward to !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Can I be stupid and ask what OST teachers are !! Sorry

[Helen]

Hi Hotgoss,

Who is telling you that you need further qualifications? The person I employ as a nursery supervisor in my nursery has an NNEB gained over twenty years ago, and we haven't experienced any problems. It seems ludicrous to charge £700 for the course, when an NVQ 3 is about £400!

I think teachers who have been out of the profession since before the NC would need to do further training; it used to be KIT courses, but I'm out of touch now, I'm afraid. Our LEA run course such as "New to Reception" which are very suitable for teachers trained a long time ago.

[Guest]

It is the Pre school learning alliance and CACHE who are telling me this , my argument is I am working in a pre-school at the moment so am learning about new things as and when they arise, as well as going on short one day training courses. If I wanted a position of responsibility or had a large career break then I could understand it more but I think the present situation is ridiculous.

[Susan]

Sorry, OST = overseas trained .

 

You sound as if you've lots of experience. Has your setting been visited by OFSTED?

What did they say?

 

I don't think you should think of your friend as higher up the ladder either. She has chosen a different career path and has different experiences but you've both the same qualification and you've a food hygiene certificate, I don't suppose she's done that?

[Guest]

As far as I am aware the older NNEB qualifications are now only valued as a level 2. This would mean that you can still work in a setting but not in a position of responsibility. I also think that if you have been keeping up with professional development, especially courses which cover the foundation stage and early learning goals, child protection and so on, then you are still a level 3.

It seems to me that you don't need to take an extra qualification as you are not wanting to supervise other staff and take on a role of responsibility.

I would get in touch with OFSTED if I were you as they have a list of relevant qualifications.

Linda

[Guest]

Hi can I just say that I have worked in early years settings for 12 years, firstly voluntary and then as a playleader-Iam now doing a BEd in early years and although it may seem unfair that you have to retrain it will only benefit the children you will be working with. The introduction of the foundation stage radically changed our perceptions of early years care and brought our practice more in line with our european counterparts,however what was acceptable even five years ago is now severly out of date. I am hoping to work in reception and I am being trained to make the classroom as much like the home environment as possible-in order to do this and still achieve progression in the childrens learning you really have to rethink your planning and provision in a big way! I have had the misfortune of working with several members of staff who had old qualifications and had to constantly defend my plans and practice which caused tension in the work place -not good for small children.If these people had just done a short course to re learn some of their ideas it would have been so much easier for them, me and the children!

[Helen]

Hi Kathy,

Thank you for your comments and welcome to the site.

I take your point about being open to the new philosophies of early years education, and having access to relevant training. But perhaps the onus should not be on the practitioners to fund their own ongoing training, but on the DfES or EYDCPs to ensure that all practitioners have access to free high quality professional development courses. After all, teachers don't have to pay to keep their qualifications up to date! What does anyone else think?

[Guest]

I totally agree. On my wages as a pre school assistant I cannot afford £700 for a course to update my NNEB. What annoys me is that I have been told that my NNEB was taught ( in 1984 ) at a higher level than the current day DPP. I feel that I should only need to update the things that I didn't study ie child protection etc , after all you can't beat experience and I have 19 years of that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Can anyone help me PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would a teacher who trained before the national curriculum have to do to update their knowledge ? Would they find gaining employment now difficult. The reason that I'm asking this is because I did my Nursery nursing qualification ( NNEB ) in 1984 and am being told that it is not a sufficient qualification now. After months of enquires and months of banging my head against a brick wall and going round in circles I am finally being told there is a new course that I can do to make my NNEB recognised as a level 3 BUT it is £700 and there is no funding available. If and when I passed I would get a 35p rise !!!!!!!!!! ( no I won't spend it all at once ) i have been in contact with the head man of CACHE who is not telling me that a teacher trained before the national curriculum would be finding the same problems as me.

Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated

There is a bit of a difference between a NNEB and a qualified teacher, ( not least a degree). Although I think you will find that their are refresher courses available for teachers, and the local LEA's provide professional development courses, allowing teachers to adapt their styles to the latest research.

[Guest]

contact the psla and apply to do the level 3 qual on a fasttrack with apl ( accredited prior learning) if you have kept up to date and have the skills and knowledge to meet the level 3 you should find it quite simple

[Guest]

Hi,

My word I'm ancient! I gained my NNEB in 1971!!!! but have always kept up to date with modern practices and took on a new job with responsibilities for staff. I had to take two years out 1998-2000 because I had cancer and was advised not to work with children because the chemo left me without any ammunity ( and you know how illness spreads like wild fire amongest young children.) So I decided to go to college and gained OCR (Oxford, CAMBRIDGE and RSA) certificate of Literacy and Numeracy for Support Assistants, This did require a practical placement but as I had records sent by my previous employer I was allowed to complete the course by Acredted Prior Knowledge. College was only one afternoon per week for 1 school year and the course cost me £150 and could be paid in installments. When all the treatment was finished I did voluntary work to make sure I was up to speed

then got a job as a teaching/classroom assistant just as the F/D stage was fully implemented in reception classes.

With 32yrs of experience and bringing up my own family and continuing to study (Am currently doing an Early Years foundation degree) that my NNEB is eqivelant to NVQ 2. Why do job adverts say NNEB prefered?

Anne

[Guest]

we have a member of staff in pre-school with a similar issue. she got her nneb in 1981 and although ofsted are ok with it as she has done updating courses the pla are saying she needs to do a dpp. i couldnt recomend anyone to do a dpp - do a fast track nvq level 3 if anything but double check with ofsted first.

this must raise the issue - at what point does a qulaification become 'too old' is a nvq gained in 1999 that is now 5 years old 'too old' as it was desirable l/outcomes not foundation stage elg's then? this runs through to the cpd issues of staff development and how this should be implemented.

the staff member in our setting is fanatastic - but,like you, she might have to leave becuase of this...crazy really!

cheers

claire:-}

[Steve]

Hi Eclaire -

Welcome to the forum and thanks for your first very interesting post! It does seem crazy that people who are generally acknowledged to be excellent practitioners with huge experience and long standing qualifications are nevertheless suddenly unqualified because the goal post has been moved. And are then expected to prove all over again that they are fit to be employed - generally at their own expense.

 

Doesn't there need to be a mechanism - maybe something like the driving checkup at age 70 - which allows experienced professionals to move through the transition to new requirements, with slightly less of an upheaval?

 

Anyway - thanks for joining us and posting on Boxing Day!

 

Regards, Steve.

[bubblejack]

Hello Eclaire,

If Ofsted are happy with the staff members qualification isn't that person meeting the legal requirement. My Ofsted inspector didn't have the experience to confirm my outdated qualification so I am having to take the fast-track option. If she had of accepted it I wouldn't have to anything. Except of course continue to update my training with short courses as I have always done. In our area the P.L.A.. recommend many things to us but it is not a legal requirement that we follow them. If I would have followed up everything they have recommended I would have had no time to run the pre-school. As they run many courses of their own it is in their interest to promote them. Theirs is not the only option available to practioners now.

[Guest]

I can't believe that after nearly a year I am still no nearer a solution to this NNEB problem. I have been in contact with the department for education who assure me that new guidlines will be brought out soon and will tell me exactly what I need to do to make my qualification 'valid' again.

The PLA have also told me that I need to do the DPP while CACHE wrote an article in the nursery world magazine saying that old NNEBs do NOT need to do another level 3 qualification. The Department for education say that they feel that the new guidelines will tell me that I only need to do top up courses , but trying to find top up courses that are suitable are another problem. I think it is ridculous that no one seems to be able to tell me what I have to do , each department and organisation tell me something completely different. I have no intention of leaving my job because of this and will fight it every step of the way . If they would prefer to lose highly qualified and experienced staff then they must be stupid. If I were to do this expensive course as I've been told then the only part of my job that would change ( apart from the 35p an hour rise !! ) is that I would be qualified enough to let the children out at hometime as our committee says that you must be a level 3 to do this. If they can't trust me to do it now , but will do after I've taken an expensive course then I think I can live without the privilage.

I think the whole situation is wrong and as I said before it is something I feel VERY strongly about and will not be beaten on it.

[bubblejack]

To Hotgoss,

Yes I know how you feel. I waited 2 years to find out my options. The quickest option is a fast track n.v.q or a.p.e.l. Who is pressurising you to update your qualification? No-one really bothered me to do anything. I felt I should do something so I wrote to the e.y.d.c. who arranged and funded the course. My "action plan" to Ofsted mentioned my course of action. Could you not do the same. I certainly wouldn't worry about it. You can't do anything till you know what all your options are. It would seem totally unnecessary to do the d.p.p.

[hali]

Oh.......

 

I am supervisor of a nursery in Berkshire - have been for 3yrs and no-one has told me that i am not qualified enough.....

I passed my NNEB in 1987 and cannot believe that a two year course that you are at college and in placements every day for two years is regarded less than going to college one day a week now!!!

 

I agree that going on refresher courses or keeping up to date is a good thing but it seems a bit demeaning to say our qualification is now out of date..

 

they dont say that to teachers, doctors, nurses etc if they qualified over 15 years ago - do they!!!!!

[Lou]

Hi Eclare

Can i just ask why you would not recommend anyone doing the DPP?

[bubblejack]

Hello Lou,

I wouldn't recommend the D.P.P course to a person that has to update their" older qualifications". They have already covered the work involved through regular training seminars etc. It is a requirement that has to be followed to access the funding. Regular "hands on experience" counts for a lot.

I am an older person with an outdated qualification. I recommend that our new staff do the d.p.p. if they are completely unqualified. I know the content of the course and I can always offer them help. For them it is a very good starting point. Although it would be pointless for me.

[Lou]

Hi Bubblejack

Thanks for the reply understand a bit more now. One more question, i thought the APEL courses that are being run now were a fast track dpp.

Sorry about all the questions but my supervisor is going to have to update next year just thought i could arm her with some information.

[bubblejack]

Hello Lou,

Glad to be able to help. APEL is a CACHE Level 3 Certificate in Early years or Playwork. It is suitable for those who have gained their qualification before the Childrens Act 1989. Entry requirements state that the candidate must be

*over 25 years of age

*working at level 3 before the award i.e.in a supervisory role

*minimum no of hours worked each week

*Able to provide 2 professional testimonials .

*Able to do a reflective account on absolutely everything that you do each day and how the setting is operated .

So far I have done 1st part of the 10 requirements. This was about Health & Safety requirements and how I met the legal requirement in my setting.

The cost of this course is £500. The e.y.d.c. are funding this. This course is distance learning with 16 hrs tuition provided. The candidates on the pilot scheme were able to complete in 12wks. The funding lasts for a year so I shall complete it during 2004.

[Steve]

That's very useful information, thanks Bubblejack! It can be a maze sometimes wading your way through the various courses that are available.

[Guest]

I no longer work at a level 3 role as I gave up my deputy role as I didn't enjoy the responsibility. Does that mean I am not eligible to do the APEL course. Although there is funding available I have been told the course I need to do is £675 and as part of my contract I have to pay half the course fee even if it is funded. What I am trying to find out as well is if I don't update my NNEB can I still be regarded as a level 2 ?? I enjoy my job but don't have any burning ambitions to work my way up the career ladder , I am quite happy to go in do my job and come home again. I am more that willing to do top up courses but at the moment ( my son is in his GCSE year , so I want to be there to help him if needed ) do not want to do any major courses myself.

[Guest]

Just another thought , CACHE wrote in nursery world last year that older NNEBs did not have to do another level 3 qualification, is the APEL another level 3 qualification ???

[bubblejack]

Hello Hotgoss,

I think you have to be in a supervisory role to qualify. As you know a supervisor is responsible for many things that an assistant isn't. All of the work is about justifying the way you run the group e.g.planning the curriculum,policies,liason with parents&professional bodies,how you prioritise to meet childrens needs.etc.etc.

I think a person must have 3 years experience in this role (at least). It is definately a level 3. I did the P.S.L.A. learning through play followed by the foundation certificate in in 1980. That is equivalent to a level 2 according to the Q.C.A.framework. If you are not a suitable candidate for A.P.E.L have you thought about the fast track N.V.Q. You might have gained some points towards it already with your NNEB.I must say no-one has hassled me to do anything YET but they might in the future and as the A.P.E.L.is funded at the moment and my children have "flown the nest" I decided to do it. I like a challenge !

Why don't you wait and see what is acceptable at your next inspection they won't expect you to produce a qualification straight away. Also you must think about updating your qualification if you had to move on. You must find a course that you are happy with.

[bubblejack]

Hello Eclaire,

All qualifications gained after 1989 are outdated. This was the year of "The childrens act"

[bubblejack]

Hello Eclaire,

Sorry I am braindead today meant to say all qualifications BEFORE 1989.(It does me no favours being at home)