Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Hi everyone, Just wondering if anyone can help me with a slight 'management' issue. I'm an NQT in Reception working with an experienced Nursery Nurse who is lovely and works full time in the class with me. However the other day another teacher asked if she could 'borrow' her for the afternoon and whilst I said that there would be no problem with this my nursery nurse questioned the fact that I would be 'on my own' with the class. Whilst I know that in Preschool there has to be a high nursery nurse staff to child ratio I was under the impression that in reception there can be a teacher on their own with up to a class of 30 children and that a full time nursery nurse is a luxury! Does anyone know of offical guidelines on this - I was kinda meekish about the whole thing saying that 'I could just about cope' - I actually found it rather liberating as my Nursery Nurse doesn't like a lot of 'mess' yet we had paint and water and junk modelling
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 I've always thought the ratios were technically 1:30 once the children entered full time school
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 It is 1: 30 but LEA reccomends as good practice 1:15 but is this not always possible due to funding. The TA should be ideally a ATA with foundation stage expereince
Guest Sycamore Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 1:30 is what I thought too. I was always led to believe I was lucky to have a TA at any point during the day! If the guidelines are different I would be pleased to be able to go and get more help from my head or the LEA!!
Guest Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 I was always told that it was 1:15 until they were 5 when it could be 1:30, but don't know if this was just a school/county policy. Ali
Rea Posted November 7, 2004 Posted November 7, 2004 Dont you think it's strange/worrying/downright daft, that the children go from a ratio of 1:8 to 1:15/30 in a matter of 6 weeks, and yet the FS curriculum and everything that goes with it still has to be done but with less staff and therefore support for the children's learning? Just a thought! (Still on my soap box I'm afraid but not quite so aggresively as yesterday...chocolate fix has kicked in)
Guest Posted November 8, 2004 Posted November 8, 2004 Thanks everyone fore replies v. much appreciated
Guest Posted November 8, 2004 Posted November 8, 2004 Dont you think it's strange/worrying/downright daft, that the children go from a ratio of 1:8 to 1:15/30 in a matter of 6 weeks, and yet the FS curriculum and everything that goes with it still has to be done but with less staff and therefore support for the children's learning? Just a thought! (Still on my soap box I'm afraid but not quite so aggresively as yesterday...chocolate fix has kicked in) I totally agree! I think it should still be 1:15 in Reception, it's so much easier to implement the FS with more adults. I only have 10 Reception children, but I also have 20 year 1 children and a lot of the time it's just me. How am I supposed to provide for all those children? School can't afford any more TA time as we have no money
Sue R Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Hi there, a bit late here and a bit off-subject, but I think it shows how confused thinking can be on this issue, and not just amongst the inexperienced! I once worked with the world's worst manager, (Day Nursery, here). Not only did she condone some pretty dodgy practices, but her idea of ratios was a bit 'off kilter'. I was once left alone with 13 children between the ages of 3 and 10( ). On another occasion, we were struggling, so requested a staff member from one of the other nurseries. What we were sent was a NQT (no insult to anyone, just trying to show how bad the grip of ratios was here!) who had been employed as a casual to do her Mum a favour. Great, thought I, a chance to discuss ideas as we were told she could only be used in Pre-school. But no!! Manager gleefully cried "That's really good. A Teacher's ratio is 1:13! We can put the older Toddlers in Pre-school, problem solved!!" She was actually going to put her alone in a room with 13 3-5 year-olds in a DN! She laughed in my face when I suggested that in the DN situation it was the age of the children, not the qualification of the practitioner which dictated the relevant ratio. Not surprisingly, I was on my bike shortly thereafter! Sue
Guest Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 Hi, My head (am in Cheshire) has said I could be left with over 30 - that it is the over all school number that is important -eg there are only 21 in Y2 24 in Y1 I have 27 in Reception but if more children arrived I could take them in because we were under 90 (30 per class) which seems stupid to me but there you are. My class should only have 18 but parents this year appealed and beause the other classes were not up to 30 I got 27 where is the sense in that. Thankfully I have a superb TA which helps a lot. I think they make it up as they go along. Abi
catma Posted November 10, 2004 Posted November 10, 2004 I don't think reception and KS1 classes can be above 30 now can they? If it was i'ld be on the phone to my union. I always understood that If you had spaces in one class and a different age child came along who was in a full year group technically you could put them in the different class because the school has spaces, just not in their year group. Realistically I've never known any head do that but if it was a question if £1500 or whatever the child weighting is these days maybe they might..........who knows. I had 1:13 in my nursery class and a provision of 1:15 in reception but TA's in R could and would be taken for cover elsewhere if the school needs required it, for their training time and for intervention programmes. They were also often meal supervisors and so would disappear about 30 mins before the end of the morning and come back 30mins after the end of dinnertime. In nursery if an NNEB was off sick i would get a hotch potch of cover from allsorts!! Never a supply nneb unless it was desperate. On a slightly different theme what ratio do you have for Reception trips? Is there a national guideline or is it just down to governors agreed school trip policies?
Guest Posted November 11, 2004 Posted November 11, 2004 I agree don't think that legally you can go over 30! How big is you classroom?
~jackie~ Posted November 12, 2004 Posted November 12, 2004 I am a TA in a reception class, and when we have been on trips, the ratio is 1:4. Jackie
Guest Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 If you manage too well with out your support you might find it is withdrawn altogether.
Susan Posted November 13, 2004 Posted November 13, 2004 Hi & Welcome to Jackie. Class Size initiative ---- no child under 7 to be in a class of more than 30. The impact of this has actually been to increase rather decrease classes as schools are only funded for 1 teacher for every 30 pupils, regardless of age group and admission number. Thank you Mr Blair! In Reception in my last school we used to take 1: 6 when going out of school on "paid" trips. In some circumstances a child might be accompanied 1:1. On unpaid trips around the local vicinity, numbers were often increased to allow us the flexibility of being able to go out as weather permitted, but were always in the mornings when support staff were available not only within Reception but also in rest of school, should need determine them being "borrowed"!
Guest Posted November 17, 2004 Posted November 17, 2004 So do we think its 1:30 for Reception at lunch time too? We have 3 lunchtime organisers for 32 Reception and 30 (soon to be more ) nursery is this enough do you think? I don't as they also brush their teeth with the LOs which can be a nightmare with 30 on your own if you don't know the chn that well. Yesterday one of the Lo's was off sick so we only had 2:nearly 60 (how ridiculous is that? )
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