Help!

[Guest]

some useful advice to think about thanks, some conflicting views though that have only added to my confusion- to expect all to join in for carpet time or to allow the children to choose- arrrrrrrrrrr i dont know.

 

i will see if my idea of staff sitting with children asap works rather then both staff tidying up, and witt the children that usually "mess about" may think about them letting them help tidy up.

 

its just staff constraints i think sometimes too, one with carpet children, 1 tidying/celaning after the meal, no one to be with those that dont want carpet session.

 

the children get loads of access to outside, we dont have space for physical activities inside the room, but we do have an indoor play room- with large equipment to climb on etc- but this would mean leaving the room to use, also as someone said i like them to sit after eating to help food settle- it is a full meal and pudding not just a snack.

[Susan]

I think we're in danger of taking the 'child choice' too far. Yes to outdoor play often and yes to child chosen activities but I do sometimes wonder whether we're storing up trouble by not making demands on childrens time. Do we really want a generation of children who think they can do exactly what they want? I wont tolerate rudness, I never did with my children and I wont with anyone elses. If a child is disrupting the rest of the group while having a story or by wanting to do something that its not a suitable time to do then I'll tell them. Rules and boundaries are needed as is the ability to understand that everyone is involved in the group and it doesnt revolve around their likes and dislikes.

Obviously we will make allowances for the children who arent developmentaly ready to sit, listen, chose, but for those who are ready then I fully expect them to be part of it.

 

I sound harsh and I suspect from the tone of some of the posts that I'll be berated but I'm a really fair, fun person who just happens to think children shouldnt have all their own way whatever the EYFS might say.

 

 

I couldnt agree more. Life in school would be so much easier if children still learnt to behave like this, whether that be at home or in previous settings.

We live in a society in which there are rules and conventions to be adhered to and whether we like them or not, agree or not if we break these rules then we must take the consequences. In the same way, children should have activities that they take part in as well as things that they can choose to do. Children actually like to have some direction some of the time, which is why some "formal" activities are appropriate some of the time! We need as practitioners to take some responsibility for the things that children do need to learn to do ie hold a pencil, use cutlery etc etc and provide opportunities for them to do this within their play. Many skills can not be achieved without practise and some children do not like to participate because they do not feel that they have that skill/ expertise but they need to be encouraged to do so not be given the choice to continually opt out.

[Guest]

some useful advice to think about thanks, some conflicting views though that have only added to my confusion- to expect all to join in for carpet time or to allow the children to choose- arrrrrrrrrrr i dont know.

 

i will see if my idea of staff sitting with children asap works rather then both staff tidying up, and witt the children that usually "mess about" may think about them letting them help tidy up.

 

its just staff constraints i think sometimes too, one with carpet children, 1 tidying/celaning after the meal, no one to be with those that dont want carpet session.

 

the children get loads of access to outside, we dont have space for physical activities inside the room, but we do have an indoor play room- with large equipment to climb on etc- but this would mean leaving the room to use, also as someone said i like them to sit after eating to help food settle- it is a full meal and pudding not just a snack.

 

 

Hi

We are having exactly the same conflict at the moment...3 staff.....we either have 2 staff telling story to 2 different age groups leaving 1 staff to tidy up, or 1 staff reading 1 staff trying to keep all children sat etc etc. But how far do you go hugging a child to get it sitting on your knee??!!! We have 4 litttle ones that will sit for about 60 secs if your lucky, a 4 year old who is refusing to it, stropping and ends up throwing things at staff /other children! If we dont get them to sit then dangerous as running around while 1 staff trying to clear up ...dont clear up I hear you say..in an ideal world we wouldnt......well hut used by WI and they rent it out in the afternoon to others, already reduced from 2 staff to 1 to tidy and they end up staying at least 45 mins after children escorted to lunch club at primary school with other 2 staff.Only just manage to get it cleaned up ! More staff? Committee wont pay for more!

 

Needless to say we are actually dreading the nativity next week...little ones running around the church, older ones refusing to dress up.....what is happening???!! Is it age, is it staff...all getting a bit daunting really at the moment and Supervisor/deputy say they are feeling like its just a toddler group!! It seems to be really hard trying to "control" them at the moment. Plus would love to know what happens at school if they are allowed to not do it when asked to at pre-school what will they be like once they are at school? Have already heard a few horror stories of some of our pre-school children who attend school inthe afternoon

Edited December 6, 2008 by marley

[Guest]

Hi

We are having exactly the same conflict at the moment...3 staff.....we either have 2 staff telling story to 2 different age groups leaving 1 staff to tidy up, or 1 staff reading 1 staff trying to keep all children sat etc etc. But how far do you go hugging a child to get it sitting on your knee??!!! We have 4 litttle ones that will sit for about 60 secs if your lucky, a 4 year old who is refusing to it, stropping and ends up throwing things at staff /other children! If we dont get them to sit then dangerous as running around while 1 staff trying to clear up ...dont clear up I hear you say..in an ideal world we wouldnt......well hut used by WI and they rent it out in the afternoon to others, already reduced from 2 staff to 1 to tidy and they end up staying at least 45 mins after children escorted to lunch club at primary school with other 2 staff.Only just manage to get it cleaned up ! More staff? Committee wont pay for more!

 

Needless to say we are actually dreading the nativity next week...little ones running around the church, older ones refusing to dress up.....what is happening???!! Is it age, is it staff...all getting a bit daunting really at the moment and Supervisor/deputy say they are feeling like its just a toddler group!! It seems to be really hard trying to "control" them at the moment. Plus would love to know what happens at school if they are allowed to not do it when asked to at pre-school what will they be like once they are at school? Have already heard a few horror stories of some of our pre-school children who attend school inthe afternoon

 

We are all aware that each child is Unique but also each group of children we have in our settings every year is unique and works in different ways - what works well with one group of children may not work so well with a different group. We need to reassess and evaluate and make changes when things are not working.

It sounds like you are all feeling a bit low and possibly that is impacting on the children too. Maybe you could try and organise a meeting and discuss how all the staff are feeling and what they think would improve the situation. Sometimes a liitle boost like that is all everybody needs. I posted on here a little while ago about a particular child who I was finding a real challenge, just sharing how i was feeling and listening to the replies helped me face the next week with renewed enthusiasm and we had a really good week.

I do agree that preschool is the ideal place for children to begin to learn the rules and routines that will enable them to settle in to school more easily. I also think that these 'rules' enable all children to feel safe and secure.

As for the nativity - I'm sure that most people dread them and i wonder how useful an experience they are for very young children?

On a practical level if staffing is an unresolvable issue have you looked into getting a volunteer or student on placement, are you in an area where there's an EYPS provider - they might need placements. What about parent helpers - it sounds like it would help to have extra staff around at story time, maybe you could have a week where parents could sign up to reading a story - this would free up all the staff to sit and support those children that are finding it difficult - i'm sure you've tried this but perhaps you could use story props with the children that struggle to concentrate to help them engage with the story

best wishes for next week

[Rea]

When I was at playgroup at tidy up time one or two members of staff would do some physical activities with the children in one end of the church hall. Hopping, running, walking backwards, simple obstacle course or team games with bean bags, balls, cones, hoops. I introduced cards with traffic light colours and slowly the children began to understand the colours when they were running or dancing, I'd flash one now and then and they'd respond as needed or sometimes I'd just shout out the words go and stop. The games only needed to last about 15-20 minutes and ended with us all lying on the floor to feel our heart beats. There was then time for a quick story or singing session before they went home.

 

Also what sort of stories do they have? Are they the same variation all the time? Do they hold the adults attention? I find that if I dont like the story I dont read it as well as I could, and i've seen someone recently who keeps telling the children to sit still but I know from where they are sitting that they cant see the book. I'm sure your staff are competent story tellers but its something that might slip when your keeping an eye out for trouble.

 

If you're dreading the nativity, is there any reason you have to do it? I only ever did one. I sang all on my own while previously word perfect children sat with mouths clamped tight shut, so I never did another.

[Guest]

Actually, today six out of 14 children chose to stay in. I think that's the children choosing. Others asked to go in even though they has coats/ hats/ mittens and lots of room to run about. Putting a towel over the top of the door won't allow me to close the door. Staff already wear thermals and children are advised to wear layers. I can only imagine that you work in a nice brick building.

 

Parents expect a certain amount of christmas crafts, which the children all want to do, they have loved the mod roc and throwing glitter everywhere / papier maiche. Our only problem is stopping them taking it home before its finsihed. I think everyone who has completed a FD, has learnt to see it all through the children's eyes however this has to be conbined with a little health and safety.

 

 

Hi diesel10, I have the same problem with children wanting to take everything home on the day they make something. What do you do to get round this? I tell the children that I would really like to put it on our display board (our 1 and only) so that everyone can see and that does not work!! and have you found that they remember every single painting......... mrsW

[Cait]

I think we're in danger of taking the 'child choice' too far. Yes to outdoor play often and yes to child chosen activities but I do sometimes wonder whether we're storing up trouble by not making demands on childrens time. Do we really want a generation of children who think they can do exactly what they want? I wont tolerate rudness, I never did with my children and I wont with anyone elses. If a child is disrupting the rest of the group while having a story or by wanting to do something that its not a suitable time to do then I'll tell them. Rules and boundaries are needed as is the ability to understand that everyone is involved in the group and it doesnt revolve around their likes and dislikes.

Obviously we will make allowances for the children who arent developmentaly ready to sit, listen, chose, but for those who are ready then I fully expect them to be part of it.

 

I sound harsh and I suspect from the tone of some of the posts that I'll be berated but I'm a really fair, fun person who just happens to think children shouldnt have all their own way whatever the EYFS might say.

 

 

HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Hi, my children take a big part in tidy up time, placing everything back in boxes and even wheeling small boxes on wheels back to the cupboard. Our children all take part in story time (one story group with the older children and one for the younger children) after tidy up time but the younger children sometimes prefer to sit round the book case choosing and looking at books of their choice. We used to have one big story time but found that the older children got annoyed at the younger children because they could not sit still and disrupted story time. We find this works well. Don't get me wrong though, we still have many chaotic mornings when I look around the room and think, where did we go wrong today? mrsW