Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Does anyone know if 20% teacher directed/80% self iniated activities applies to the end of Foundation Stage?? Or is it until the child reaches age 5? Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Welcome to the Forum, Sheila! If its in the EYFS documentation then I'd say it applies for all the time the child is in the Early Years Foundation Stage - so right up until the child enters year 1. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Welcome to the Forum, Sheila! If its in the EYFS documentation then I'd say it applies for all the time the child is in the Early Years Foundation Stage - so right up until the child enters year 1. Maz Thanks Maz, That's what I thought too, but my colleagues were not sure? Sheila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 That's what I thought too, but my colleagues were not sure? Let's hope I'm right then, Sheila! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I always thought that whilst observations had to be 20% adult-led 80% child initiated, the actual TEACHING had to be 50-50 so that children got a balance between the two. Please tell me which page of EYFS it mentions the figures as 20-80 as I am worried now that I'm doing too much directing. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Mozart is right - 80/20 is for observations. 50/50 is the recommended split for Reception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 just a silly question to put a spanner in the works. Are these percentages per day, week, term, year, or whole period of access to EYFS per child? Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Mozart is right - 80/20 is for observations. 50/50 is the recommended split for Reception. I wasn't sure about this aspect myself - that's why I said "if its in the documentation"! I always seem to be asking everyone on here if they can tell me what page it says such and such on! But it is always a valid question. So Phil - what page does it say a 50/50 split then! Sorry - couldn't resist! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) just a silly question to put a spanner in the works. Are these percentages per day, week, term, year, or whole period of access to EYFS per child? And will the DCSF or Ofsted produce a handy spreadsheet to make sure we're all conforming? Edited October 16, 2008 by HappyMaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I know evidence for the EYFS profile is supposed to be collected 20% teacher directed, 80% child initiated. I've not heard of 50/50 - now I'm worried, as I certainly don't spend 50% of the day 'teaching' - or maybe I do if you count small group activities. But doesn't the amount of time children spend on teacher led/initiated increase as the year progresses?!? At the moment the only 'work' I seem to be doing is Letters and Sounds!!! Harricroft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 omg!now I'm totally confused! Help! I thought that you planned a week so that 50% of time children were undertaking directed- adult led activities and 50% of time, they used continuous provision as starting points for C.I. Obviously, if the C.I. really took off either through adult led or C.I., then you would follow that and adapt you planning retrospectively by saying what actualy happened as opposed to what was planned. Dare I show my face at work tomorrow or am I a complete fraud with the wrong end of every stick! I shall look for a page reference to define a total no-hoper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I'm not aware that it is in the EYFS document but it is a statistic that I have heard wheeled out by advisors on many a training session in my authority. I have feeling it may have been a recommendation from the EPPE research that the most effective settings have an equal balance between adult and child intiated activities (would have to google). I have always interpreted it that any actvity led by the adult (e.g. small group time, phonics, story time, singing etc.) count as adult directed and child intitated is purely that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 omg!now I'm totally confused! Help! I've searched the pdf for teaching, teacher, directed - in both practice guidance and statutory framework but can't see it. Perhaps this is laid down somewhere else? Or I'm just not searching for the right words? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 thank you for that sensible reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Right then - closest quote I can find in EYFS: Practitioners must therefore ensure a balance of adult-led and freely chosen or child-initiated activities, to be delivered through indoor and outdoor play. from learning and development. No numbers and no spreadsheets mentioned though I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I have always interpreted it that any actvity led by the adult (e.g. small group time, phonics, story time, singing etc.) count as adult directed and child intitated is purely that. When the child picks up an adult-led activity and runs off with it in a completely different direction, resulting in really fantastic learning does that still count as adult directed or does it move into the realm of child initiated? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 maybe need to define the difference between 'initiated' and directed'. I would think that directed means toan end conclusion and 'initiated' means started. So maz, in your example it was adult initiated (not directed) and the child then directed his or her own play from this starting point. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Yes, I think Peggy is right. I'm sure that, at the school where my daughter teaches, the head had discussed at some length the difference between adult-led and adult-initiated, and I thought that, in the 80% and 20% quoted, the 20% was adult-led, but I may have got it round my neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 From the EYFS guidance (which will make it more confusing) The EYFS requires providers to ensure a balance of child-initiated and adult-led play-based activities. Providers should use their judgement and their knowledge of the children in their care in deciding what the balance should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 From the EYFS guidance (which will make it more confusing) The EYFS requires providers to ensure a balance of child-initiated and adult-led play-based activities. Providers should use their judgement and their knowledge of the children in their care in deciding what the balance should be. wayhay , credence in professional judgement and not a measurable percentage quota in sight, AND written in black and white. (as you may notice I havn't read the EYFS thoroughly yet) Thanks Marion. Peggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Listening to Iram Siraj Blatchford this week she was talking about EPPE etc showing that 1/3 adult directed to 2/3 child initiated being the most effective - I think the 2/3 were taken up with 1/3 totally child initiated(No adult) and 1/3 child starts and adult supports from that point. The EYFS "equal balance" does also come from EPPE so it was interesting to hear Iram as I felt a shift there. But hey - it's professional judgement. You can be too formal and directing and that is wrong. You can be totally unstructured and that is wrong - somewhere in the middle is right . Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Sally Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Listening to Iram Siraj Blatchford this week she was talking about EPPE etc showing that 1/3 adult directed to 2/3 child initiated being the most effective - I think the 2/3 were taken up with 1/3 totally child initiated(No adult) and 1/3 child starts and adult supports from that point. The EYFS "equal balance" does also come from EPPE so it was interesting to hear Iram as I felt a shift there. But hey - it's professional judgement. You can be too formal and directing and that is wrong. You can be totally unstructured and that is wrong - somewhere in the middle is right . Cx All the EYFS training I have had over the past year has said that our observations come from 20% adult directed 80% child initiated. Our day should be 1:3 adult directed 1:3 child initiated and 1:3 'sustained shared thinking' so i guess that fits in with that. I agree completely that somewhere in the middle is right and as practitioners we have to trust our own judgement with the children we are working with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Just heard yesterday about "child initiated adult extended" activities. Sounds good to me - the child initiates and the adult then adds challenges and extensions to further the learning and development. I suppose sustained shared thinking fits that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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