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Hi there,

 

I have a new treasurer. I won't go into details, but can anone tell me;

 

what is the ratio for 20 children aged 3+ in a pre-school?

 

How many level 3 staff would we require?

 

I feel a right berk asking, but he has interpreted the EYFS guidance differently to my interpretation!

 

 

Thank you in advance (I really feel like I'm going round the twist)!

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You need at least 3 members of staff (1:8) for 20 children over 3.

 

As far as I know you need 1 level 3 - supervisor, 1 level 3 - deputy (or someone able to take over if supervisor is away) and another member of staff to make it up to 3.

 

Ratios are a huge nightmare and can be easily misunderstood!! :o

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Hi cirhossa1

your ratio should be 1 adult to 8 children on over 3's. We should be on at least 50% level 3 if I remember rightly working towards 75% and eventually all staff on level 3 some where in the future. hope that helps

Under 3's its 1 to 4 don't forget

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Thank you,

 

it does make you worry that we could manage a maximum of 24 children with 3 staff! After all we have a huge outdoors area which is very difficult to watch over. If we stick to the ratio, we'll lose our jobs in a day when there is a lost child or a long list of accidents!

 

Thankmyou for your responses

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Thank you,

 

it does make you worry that we could manage a maximum of 24 children with 3 staff! After all we have a huge outdoors area which is very difficult to watch over. If we stick to the ratio, we'll lose our jobs in a day when there is a lost child or a long list of accidents!

 

Thankmyou for your responses

 

 

And just to throw a spanner in the works I've heard from different nursery manager's recently inspected by Ofsted(different inspectors) that raito's count for nothing i.e. you should always over ratio. Makes a bit of a mockery doesn't it!! And by the way both nurseries failed because although the ratio's where correct the inspector felt there should have been more staff!!

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It just seems too hazy!

 

If we were to employ 3 staff it would be suicide (for the staff). If we employ four we can just about manage, but can't hold parent meetings or see to any accidents with more than one person. If we have five we will be bancrupt!

 

I think the only way round it is to have more staff when we have difficult days (you know, the ones where there are some personality conflicts between the children)!

 

Oooh heck, how do I get this past the treasurer without him wanting the actual ratio?!

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If the outdoor space is really large then surely the safety to children is to have more staff and any parents visiting would want to see plenty of staff ratio to ensure their child's safety.

 

Would be worth contacting EYAT or someone to comfirm this....

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If the outdoor space is really large then surely the safety to children is to have more staff and any parents visiting would want to see plenty of staff ratio to ensure their child's safety.

 

Would be worth contacting EYAT or someone to comfirm this....

 

 

Have just finished writing an email to her - safety first, finances second!

 

thank you ;-)

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Have just finished writing an email to her - safety first, finances second!

 

thank you ;-)

 

I had this problem once. In the end we had to tape off an area to make it safe. Children were fine and adjusted well to their confined areas. We were able to work safely and keep with ratios. Shame when you have such a large area but safety comes first. It use to take us so long to check the area every morning as well(dog mess, bottles,etc).

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I had this problem where I used to work - but it was over 8's so no legal ratio. The owner thought it was completely acceptable to leave me on my own with 15 - 20 children some days. Needless to say I left.

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At our setting we work on figures under 3's - 6 points over 3's - 3 points. A maximum of 24 points per member of staff. Makes it easier to work your ratio's when you are working with mixed age children. This was an idea given to us by the Early Years Financial Adviser and we have found it really useful.

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At our setting we work on figures under 3's - 6 points over 3's - 3 points. A maximum of 24 points per member of staff. Makes it easier to work your ratio's when you are working with mixed age children. This was an idea given to us by the Early Years Financial Adviser and we have found it really useful.

Thanks for this Shelley: I've been looking for this for ages in my own little quiet way. Everyone I've spoken to about a points system just looked at me and blinked! :o A bit like that!

 

Maz

 

PS I've just worked out our 'points per practitioner'(or what I'm now calling PPP) at 16. I wonder if there's a correlation between quality of provision and PPP?

 

And I'd like to know "what do points make? xD

Edited by HappyMaz
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ok Maz WILL BE THE ONE TO SAY IT...

 

prizes..

 

As to ratios, while it is more difficult we work to the chioldren.. being PV i we work out the maximum staff we could pay and if needed use it.. we are lucky in that committee listen and we work with low ratios.. but if we find children settled and coping with less reduce staff..

 

Inge

 

And our PPP is just 15 -we are lucky! (1:5)

Edited by Inge
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At our setting we have 2 1/2 yr old up to 4+ yr olds - so we were advised by Ofsted that a ratio of 1:5 would cover us, and that is what we stick to, although I always like one over ratio to deal with 'peparing snack', cleaning etc. So for 20 chidlren I would have 5 staff.

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And our PPP is just 15 -we are lucky! (1:5)

I rounded ours up Inge - but on our quietest day it goes down to 12. I wonder how low can it go? I guess childminders probably have the lowest PPP of all - it has certainly changed the way I think about ratios! :o

 

Maz

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Do you have any parent helpers or if the treasurer wants to keep the ratio's high could the committee help out? I find that when out of the ordinary happens (a prospective new parent arriving, or the fire service checking our equipment, or the council checking our water supply) if you are working on high ratio's then it is just not acceptable.

 

This was an issue brought up at my SENCO training the other day. If we are to comply with the EYFS then a member of staff should be able to talk with parents when children are dropped off without affecting the ratio to all the other children in the building. This was the view of the Foundation Stage Adviser. It does make you think about your ratio's a bit more though.

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