Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hi there, I have a new treasurer. I won't go into details, but can anone tell me; what is the ratio for 20 children aged 3+ in a pre-school? How many level 3 staff would we require? I feel a right berk asking, but he has interpreted the EYFS guidance differently to my interpretation! Thank you in advance (I really feel like I'm going round the twist)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiny Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 You need at least 3 members of staff (1:8) for 20 children over 3. As far as I know you need 1 level 3 - supervisor, 1 level 3 - deputy (or someone able to take over if supervisor is away) and another member of staff to make it up to 3. Ratios are a huge nightmare and can be easily misunderstood!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hi cirhossa1 your ratio should be 1 adult to 8 children on over 3's. We should be on at least 50% level 3 if I remember rightly working towards 75% and eventually all staff on level 3 some where in the future. hope that helps Under 3's its 1 to 4 don't forget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Thank you, it does make you worry that we could manage a maximum of 24 children with 3 staff! After all we have a huge outdoors area which is very difficult to watch over. If we stick to the ratio, we'll lose our jobs in a day when there is a lost child or a long list of accidents! Thankmyou for your responses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Thank you, it does make you worry that we could manage a maximum of 24 children with 3 staff! After all we have a huge outdoors area which is very difficult to watch over. If we stick to the ratio, we'll lose our jobs in a day when there is a lost child or a long list of accidents! Thankmyou for your responses And just to throw a spanner in the works I've heard from different nursery manager's recently inspected by Ofsted(different inspectors) that raito's count for nothing i.e. you should always over ratio. Makes a bit of a mockery doesn't it!! And by the way both nurseries failed because although the ratio's where correct the inspector felt there should have been more staff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 It just seems too hazy! If we were to employ 3 staff it would be suicide (for the staff). If we employ four we can just about manage, but can't hold parent meetings or see to any accidents with more than one person. If we have five we will be bancrupt! I think the only way round it is to have more staff when we have difficult days (you know, the ones where there are some personality conflicts between the children)! Oooh heck, how do I get this past the treasurer without him wanting the actual ratio?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 If the outdoor space is really large then surely the safety to children is to have more staff and any parents visiting would want to see plenty of staff ratio to ensure their child's safety. Would be worth contacting EYAT or someone to comfirm this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 If the outdoor space is really large then surely the safety to children is to have more staff and any parents visiting would want to see plenty of staff ratio to ensure their child's safety. Would be worth contacting EYAT or someone to comfirm this.... Have just finished writing an email to her - safety first, finances second! thank you ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Have just finished writing an email to her - safety first, finances second! thank you ;-) I had this problem once. In the end we had to tape off an area to make it safe. Children were fine and adjusted well to their confined areas. We were able to work safely and keep with ratios. Shame when you have such a large area but safety comes first. It use to take us so long to check the area every morning as well(dog mess, bottles,etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I had this problem where I used to work - but it was over 8's so no legal ratio. The owner thought it was completely acceptable to leave me on my own with 15 - 20 children some days. Needless to say I left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 If you were in a maintained setting you could/would have 26 children and only TWO members of staff ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 At our setting we work on figures under 3's - 6 points over 3's - 3 points. A maximum of 24 points per member of staff. Makes it easier to work your ratio's when you are working with mixed age children. This was an idea given to us by the Early Years Financial Adviser and we have found it really useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachelllps Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 This is really interesting, how do ofsted see it? It would have helped us enormously earlier this year to have a different way of working things out. Rachel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) At our setting we work on figures under 3's - 6 points over 3's - 3 points. A maximum of 24 points per member of staff. Makes it easier to work your ratio's when you are working with mixed age children. This was an idea given to us by the Early Years Financial Adviser and we have found it really useful. Thanks for this Shelley: I've been looking for this for ages in my own little quiet way. Everyone I've spoken to about a points system just looked at me and blinked! A bit like that! Maz PS I've just worked out our 'points per practitioner'(or what I'm now calling PPP) at 16. I wonder if there's a correlation between quality of provision and PPP? And I'd like to know "what do points make? Edited July 1, 2008 by HappyMaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmawill Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Shiny sorry i have put this in this forum nut haven't mastered the system yet. Have just noted your are in essex LIKE ME . Where abouts ? or is that a bit cheeky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) ok Maz WILL BE THE ONE TO SAY IT... prizes.. As to ratios, while it is more difficult we work to the chioldren.. being PV i we work out the maximum staff we could pay and if needed use it.. we are lucky in that committee listen and we work with low ratios.. but if we find children settled and coping with less reduce staff.. Inge And our PPP is just 15 -we are lucky! (1:5) Edited July 1, 2008 by Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 At our setting we have 2 1/2 yr old up to 4+ yr olds - so we were advised by Ofsted that a ratio of 1:5 would cover us, and that is what we stick to, although I always like one over ratio to deal with 'peparing snack', cleaning etc. So for 20 chidlren I would have 5 staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 And our PPP is just 15 -we are lucky! (1:5) I rounded ours up Inge - but on our quietest day it goes down to 12. I wonder how low can it go? I guess childminders probably have the lowest PPP of all - it has certainly changed the way I think about ratios! Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Do you have any parent helpers or if the treasurer wants to keep the ratio's high could the committee help out? I find that when out of the ordinary happens (a prospective new parent arriving, or the fire service checking our equipment, or the council checking our water supply) if you are working on high ratio's then it is just not acceptable. This was an issue brought up at my SENCO training the other day. If we are to comply with the EYFS then a member of staff should be able to talk with parents when children are dropped off without affecting the ratio to all the other children in the building. This was the view of the Foundation Stage Adviser. It does make you think about your ratio's a bit more though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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