Advice Needed Please

[Deb]

Hi

 

Not come across this before, but seem to remember reading something similar about this recently. Cannot find the thread.

 

Mum has said that she is having problems with Dad, and has asked us not to allow the child to go home with Dad without Mum being there.

 

Mum and Dad are married, but separated.

 

We asked Mum to put it in writing.

 

If Mum and Dad are married can we prevent Dad picking the child up?

[Andreamay]

This is a tricky one and I may be wrong so please wait for others to back it up but I would say you have done right about having it put in writing and if they are seperated so not living together mum is the main carer and you would not let anyone take the child without her say so anyway as she would let you know on drop off or sign a form to let someone you dont have as contact pick up.So if Dad was to pick up or he sent someone else she would be there anyway and if he came early you would not beable to let them go without permission from mum. i would perhaps get advise from your ey advisor too. We have had this situation but dad was told by the court to stay away so it was different altho we lived in fear he was going to snatch his child for awhile,very sad but life I guess

[mundia]

The simple answer to that is no, you cant. If dad turns up and demands to collect his child for whom he still has parental responsibility, then he is entitled to. Unless there is a court order or a change of parental responsibility which some couples do opt for in the case of divorce or separation.

 

Mum would need to prove that dad no longer has parental responsibility in order to prevent him from collecting the child and mum needs to be aware of this by taking legal advice.

[Andreamay]

you see i told you i didnt know what i was talking about!!! Thanks mundia

[JacquieL]

Mundia is spot on here as you can do nothing to stop the parent taking the child if they so wish, if they have parental responsibility, without a court order. What we have said to the parent in the past is that if Dad/Mum turns up we will stall him/her a little and contact him/her straight away. We would explain honestly that we are having to contact Mum and why.

The argument is between them and not with us so they need to sort it out properly. these things are sent to try us

[Helen]

Totally agree with Mundia and Jacquie. You cannot stop him collecting the child in this case.

Don't worry Andreamay: we can't know everything!

[dublinbay]

We have a similar problem at the moment although dad is the ex-boyfriend and not a husband. Don't know whether this makes a difference.

We have asked mum to put in writing that she doesn't want the dad to pick up the child. She put the frighteners on us yesterday by telling us he was arrested (don't know why) and likely to be bailed and then she says he is then likely to come after the child.

Nothing happened but it made us quite concerned for the safety of our children and ourselves throughout the day.

Mum wanted to be called immediately should he turn up and this probably would work to stall him for some time. As JacquieL says the arguement is between the parents and not us - why do they try and involve us at all.

[Guest]

I agree but you need to ensure that you are respecting parental consent and if this mum puts this in writing maybe you could explain to her that you need confirmation of paretnal right through courts etc... It is very tricky but you need to make sure that the child is safe as well..... Are the parents still together?

 

You need to seek advice from the professionals maybe the child protection officer.

 

good luck

[Rea]

Where the parents arent married, if the child was born after December 2003, dad has automatic parental responsibilty. Before Dec '03 he would have had to apply for it.

Dads who are married have automatic parental responsibilty whenever the child was born. Only a court can take PR and give it to one parent over another.

Dad could cause an awful stink if he was refused access to his child on mom's say so.

I'd make mom aware that you cannot stop dad collecting, and I'd be careful about stalling too, it looks like you're taking sides, its nothing to do with you, unless you have a very strong reason to believe he might harm the child. Most dads wont, so be sure. Remember you only have one side of the story.

 

A few years ago a dad (who I actually didnt like one bit) with parental responsibility, wanted details from our register concerning his daughters attendance on a particular day. Both Lawcall and Ofsted said I couldnt give the info., even after I explained over and over that dad had PR. I thought about it long and hard and then told him, through his solicitor, what he wanted to know. Mom was going to court saying the child had witnessed dad being abusive and violent, but I had proof she'd been with us when mom said the incident took place. Lawcall and Ofsted would have allowed a lie to happen and I couldnt do that. Luckily dad had PR and that was my arguement, but if he hadnt, I really think I'd still have told the truth anyway.

[Andreamay]

well very true Helen very true

like i said only expereince is through the courts so followed the correct procedure.It doesnt seem right though that you would let him go with dad after mum had dropped off and was expecting to pick him up,if somebody different picks up to who we would expect we wouldnt beable to let them go unless previously arranged.

[Guest]

We had a child where dad in this case had requested mum not to take.Mum arrived mid-session in a taxi.There was a tussle between staff/mother dragging the child into the taxi and Police were called. Police could do nothing as there was nothing 'legal' to say mother could not take the child despite schools fear for the childs safety.We had to allow mother to take the child and disappear into another county with the police watching.

Father was successful in regaining custody of the child and she returned to us with legal paper work completed.

Are you a school becasue your LEA will have a legal department that could advise you further-or someonther professional body?

[Marion]

If the father is named on the child's birth certificate he has legal rights even if not married. We had a case last year where the father was named on the older child's bith certificate but not on the younger child's and he had to go to court to obtain access. We ask for copies of any documents allowing or restricting access.

[Guest]

I think the examples given here show the need for a written procedure in the event of 'diagreement' on collection, ie: keeping the child/ and other children and staff safe from dealing with/witnessing such arguments on collection.

 

We had an incident where a member of staffs child attended, dad did not have legal rights and turned up at the end of a session ( a bit early but other parents around) to pick up his daughter ( previously had access permission from mum, which was then denied by mum.

 

We had an intercom system at the time so could deal with it 'behind closed doors' but it made us think about procedures in the case of if he had entered the building ( for example whilst we opened the door for another parent) and then how we would deal with a possible aggresive behaviour.

 

Even just talking this through at a staff meeting, having planned actions to follow helps, this gives one less thing to think about in what can be a stressfull situation.

 

I hope that the parents can get through this difficult time and put their childs best interests first before their own arguments.

 

Peggy

[Guest Wolfie]

I agree with Mundia - I've done child protection training very recently and was told there is nothing you can do unless there is a written court order and you have seen it.

[Guest]

i have had parents where the mum has changed the child's surname because she has fallen out with dad i know parents can change children's names but unclear on protocol of it all i think as there was no paperwork to compliment change we just used original name on all documents but put know as in brackets was this right?

[mundia]

this was a discussion we had recently cheerycherry but I cant find it just now.

 

It boils down to the same thing though, all parties with parental responsibility have to give permission for change of name, although child can be 'known as' whatever you like

[Guest BevPiper]

Hi

 

Not come across this before, but seem to remember reading something similar about this recently. Cannot find the thread.

 

Mum has said that she is having problems with Dad, and has asked us not to allow the child to go home with Dad without Mum being there.

 

Mum and Dad are married, but separated.

 

We asked Mum to put it in writing.

 

If Mum and Dad are married can we prevent Dad picking the child up?

 

 

 

Hi Deb

 

By law you are unable to enforce Mum's request without a Court Order in place first. I have written into my Contract that unless a Court Order has been obtained we are unable to meet such requests should Dad insist on taking the child. As long as Parents understand this then you cannot be held liable.

 

Bev

[dublinbay]

Just wanted to say hello and welcome to you Bev. Congratulations on making your first post.

Its a great site so enjoy browsing - its also addictive, you have been warned!

[Deb]

Thanks again everyone. We have explained why we cannot prevent Dad from taking their child to the Mum and she has accepted that. Fortunately, her other child's school has said the same. I'm going to make a note in our policies so that it is written down to remind us should it happen again.