Re: Treasurer Troubles (again)

[Guest]

Ok so I'll begin whereI left off (ish).

 

My committee are new and heve their 1st meeting tomorrow (bless, I hope I don't frighten them away).

 

The treasurer still wants to be paid a wage and inorder for this to happen he would have to become our 'financial assistant' and leave the committee.

 

The name of 'treasurer' would be taken by another member of the committee (in name only-bit dodgy if you ask me).

 

He is asking for the same hourly wage as a level3 member of staff would get and for 10 hours a week! He stated he works for 60 hours a month from home at the mo and we're only open 5 sessions a week.

 

However, we will be paying a trained administrator who would have to take over some of his roles. The administrator will be using a new package which will dramatically reduce his hours. He initially wanted this post, but stated his written English is not good enough, so would like to be paid for his current post.

 

Does anyone have anything which can help me work out the following:

 

1. Does this seem legal?

 

2. How would the person who takes on the treasurer's 'name' not be implicated if there were financial problems?

 

3.If he were to receive a wage, what should the hourly rate be-should he receive more than the staff?

 

4. He has threatened his resignation if we do not pay him, where do we stand?

 

5. If I feel the committee are making a mistake in this, who can I turn to for help/advice?

 

6. anything else as I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, advice, help and a bit of support please!

 

Thank you x

[Lou]

Hi

It does not sound right to me. I always thought you couldn't pay committee members. Plus what work does he do that takes up ten hours a week. I don't work with a committee so I may be wrong.

I always feel if I had extra money for admin staff I would take someone on to work at the setting so at least I have someone on hand if needed. I would not pay anyone the same as a qualified member of staff.

Good luck with your decision.

[HappyMaz]

Oh dear. Its not getting better is it?

 

Firstly - you have an equality of opportunity policy which covers the recruitment of staff. This will mean that you have to ensure the position goes to the best applicant. You will have a job description and person specification and criteria against which you will interview applicants and make your decision (by which I mean the committee, obviously). I think he's assuming the job will automatically be his - but if you offer true equality of opportunity the recruitment process will need to be transparent and fair.

 

So it is far from a foregone conclusion that he will get the post - there may be other more suitable candidates. In coming up with an hourly salary for the post you will need to gather information about what the 'market' pays at the moment (and bearing in mind that you're a charitable organisation this probably won't be at the high end of the salary scales). I really have no idea whether this will be at the same level as a qualified practitioner - you might need to do a bit of research amongst similar groups and find out what sorts of pay they offer.

 

As for the role of the Treasurer I would assume that s/he would oversee the work of the financial assistant - after all s/he will be ultimately responsible for the accounting practices within the group, and will sign off the accounts each year. There has been a discussion elsewhere on here about responsibilities of trustees and the benefits of a charitable company where financial liability can be limited to £1 - so a lot will depend on how your group is constituted. But I have to say that if I was looking at taking on the treasurer's post I would need to be very sure that the person doing the books was doing it properly and with full consultation with the committee.

 

I think I said this before, but to me this feels a lot like blackmail. Does he have accounting qualifications? - if not your committee will need to consider carefully whether he is the right man for the job. After all he's potentially making the change from being a volunteer to being a professional - so he'll need the skills and qualifications to justify a salary.

 

If you are a member of the Pre-school Learning Alliance I would strongly suggest you get advice from them - they are well placed to offer support in these kind of situations. And they will have up to date information about the legalities of employing staff, roles and responsibilities of committee members etc.

 

As for your own views - if you really feel the committee is making a mistake then you might be limited to making your feelings and views known either at a staff meeting (which you must insist on being minuted) or in writing to the committee chair. Someone else on here said that this is very much a committee decision - but one would hope that they would at least consult you!

 

Sorry to go on - you have my sympathies because this is a very tricky situation.

 

Good luck with your meeting!

 

Maz

[dublinbay]

I agree with all Happymaz has said.

This is a very tricky situation that I hope can be resolved soon for your sake.

Good luck with your meeting and keep us posted.

[Alison]

It sounds like this person is trying to create a job for themself

 

what does he claim he does for 10 hours?

 

Id agree it sounds more like bullying or blackmail and I would offer this commitee member an ultermatum

either -

remain as a commitee member unpaid as initially agreed

or he must stand down

 

if he wanted to apply for the position of finacial assistant he must take his chances through the proper recruitment proceedure rather than black mail his way into the job.

 

I hope you sort your problems out, dont let this person bully their way into a job

[Guest]

Good advice already.

 

Reading between he lines are you concerned that this person, a committee member, will 'lead' the 'new' committee into decisions ( which you have no vote on) such as employing him, which you feel may be detrimental to the preschool and not within law or even good practice?

( wow, that was a long question )

 

Inform the cmmittee that they do not need to make any decisions until they have taken further advice from PLA, etc. Remind them that they need to be sure themselves that they are following law etc, even if they are in a position with limited liability, an investigation of unlawful practice should be guarded against. No-one would wish to go through that especially as it's not necessary if time is taken to ensure all decisions are well informed and appropriatte.

 

I personally would double up the post of admin and financial assistant into one post, overseen by the committee of course, and the committee treasurer would be the counter signatory on everything. I would ensure very clear job desriptions and very clear roles and responsibilities.

 

Peggy

[narnia]

personally,i'd let him resign, then if you decide you want/need a paid treasurer/admin officer, advertise for one.This chap seems to be a bully and I suspect his demands won't stop if you keep him on.Get rid, asap and start afresh!

Edited November 15, 2007 by narnia

[Guest Wolfie]

I agree with narnia, let him resign!

[belle06]

I also agree with Narnia and Wolfie this Gent (I use the word loosely) sounds like a bully who is trying to bully people in to doing things that seem dodgy at the least. Stick to your guns good luck let us know how you get on

[Guest]

Hi there

 

Wow, this guy is something else!

 

Have you spoken to your Early Years Advisor about him? I think our EYA would not be amused if something like this cropped up with our setting.

 

Surely if you are going to be employing an administrator there will be no need at all for a treasurer. I agree with what everybody else has said and for the smooth running of your setting let him resign.

 

If it becomes common knowledge that he is expecting pay on the scale which he is it could cause a lot of tension with all staff and then who knows what all the rest of the committee might expect. He must have known what he was taking on when he accepted the treasurer role to begin with.

 

You'd be better off employing an accountant, if the financial side is too complex for the committee.

 

Good Luck

[Guest]

Thank you all for your support and suggestions.

 

I'll let you know how the meeting goes - I'm unsure as to what the outcome will be (hopeful that he won't get his way),

will let you all know though x

[Deb]

Some very good advice alreaady. I totally agree with Peggy. I would double up the post of admin and financial assistant into one post (this is what we did, as per my reply to your original post). I do 8 hours a week and get paid around £6.20 per hour which is the same as my deputy job but I do have clerical and ICT qualifications too. We have a treasurer, in name mostly, as we have a small financial sub committee to discuss issues, with 3 signatories (I am not one through my choice which I think is good practice). Decide what you want this role to be, very clear job descriptions and may the best applicant get the job. Issues should be won by discussions and debate not ultimatums, this feels like bullying tactics, very uneasy about treasurer being paid. Good luck, hope it all gets sorted soon. Let us know how you get on.

[Guest]

 

Have to be really honest there is always someone better out there who will do the job and really think its time to let this person go... Before its goes any further and gets nasty... or goes terribly wrong for the pre-school.

[Guest]

I'd love to know what he does that takes 10 hrs a week. I used to be treasurer for the pre-school where I now work and treasurer for the local toddler group and both of these together only took an hour or two each week, maybe a touch more if you incude the 20min walk to the bank (which I was passing anyway on the way to school).

What a situation to be put in, he does sound more trouble than its worth.

Let us know what happens,

[Guest]

Some very good advice alreaady. I totally agree with Peggy. I would double up the post of admin and financial assistant into one post (this is what we did, as per my reply to your original post). I do 8 hours a week and get paid around £6.20 per hour which is the same as my deputy job but I do have clerical and ICT qualifications too. We have a treasurer, in name mostly, as we have a small financial sub committee to discuss issues, with 3 signatories (I am not one through my choice which I think is good practice). Decide what you want this role to be, very clear job descriptions and may the best applicant get the job. Issues should be won by discussions and debate not ultimatums, this feels like bullying tactics, very uneasy about treasurer being paid. Good luck, hope it all gets sorted soon. Let us know how you get on.

 

Hi Deb,

Thank you so much for your help on this,

My Committee have just asked how to create the post of administrator and what their job descript should be (spo we can work out hours).

Do you have a list that we could use as a guideline? I'm going to reply to everyone as to how the meeting went - rather well!

Many, many thanks.

[Guest]

Hello everyone,

 

just to let you know how the meeting went;

 

Committee have decided to create an admin post, with much of the treasurer's role incorporated.

 

Until we have created the post, our current treasurer will keep receiving his 'expenses', as long as he signs an agreement stating he will give us 1 month's notice. :wacko:

 

He will also be aware that his chances of getting the admin post will be greatly reduced by his actions.

 

Phew, what a relief.

 

Thank you all so so very, very, very much for your words and help...you have helped us come to a positive conclusion. x x

[Guest]

Pleased to hear the issue is nearly resolved.

 

Now, where to find a good admin assistant.

 

Peggy

[Beau]

Well done, these sorts of things are never easy but it really didn't sound like the sort of person you want working for you. Hope it all works out for the best.

[HappyMaz]

What a relief for you all. Nearly there now - hope it all concludes satisfactorily and then you can all move on.

 

Maz

[Guest]

Thanks Maz,

 

 

I'm really pleased the new committee seem to have good solid thoughts and are all considerate of the pre school as a 'whole'.

 

We've also got two grannies-both with lots of experience and good ideas - phew!

 

Golly, seems there never is anything straight forward in this job!

 

Thanks for your support and help

[HappyMaz]

You're lucky to have the grannies - make the most of them.

 

Went on a Sally Thomas training this week - she was extolling the virtues of grannies (and grandpas) who come in to help because "they talk slowly, and they have the ability to sit still". Unlike the rest of us who run around like mad things, obviously...

 

Will your grannies be able to come in and spend some time with the children? She was saying they have great skills to offer - especially if they come in to work with a particular key group of children and are able to build relationships with them.

 

Glad your committee is so positive - not always a comment I hear from people who work for committee-managed groups!

 

Maz

[HappyMaz]

Pleased to hear the issue is nearly resolved.

 

Now, where to find a good admin assistant.

 

Peggy

Just saw your comparative locations. Are you thinking of applying Peggy - I'm sure a woman of your calibre could fit in one more commitment....

 

Maz

[Guest]

Just saw your comparative locations. Are you thinking of applying Peggy - I'm sure a woman of your calibre could fit in one more commitment....

 

Maz

 

 

More than welcome! We do need someone who actually understands why we exist and how to do the job, rather than thinking we are making a huge profit and that they can make a huge profit too!

 

I'll post the details when a bit closer to opening (possibly within 8 weeks). x

[Guest MaryEMac]

Glad to hear that you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I spoke to our treasurer and she was so surprised that he claimed that he worked 60 hours a month. She said that she usually spends about an hour a week and a bit longer at the end of the month when wages are due.

 

Mary

[Guest]

Just saw your comparative locations. Are you thinking of applying Peggy - I'm sure a woman of your calibre could fit in one more commitment....

 

Maz

 

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Maz, I have actually been head hunted for an advisory role, nothing confirmed yet so can't really say much about it at the moment.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Wow Peggy, that's great!

 

Lucky you and well earned - you certainly do seem to have a good head and sensible advice about you

 

 

Good luck, let me know how you get on

[HappyMaz]

Wow Peggy, that's great!

 

Lucky you and well earned - you certainly do seem to have a good head and sensible advice about you

Good luck, let me know how you get on

Congrats Peggy - I hope that it comes to fruition and that you can continue to make your mark on the world of eary years!

 

Obviously they recognise your talents - but you could always add cirhossa1's endorsement to your CV - both are excellent qualitites for an early years adviser! :wacko:

 

Maz

[dublinbay]

I hope the job turns out to be something you'd be interested in doing Peggy. They would be lucky to have you.

Fingers crossed.

 

 

Glad things have turned out the way they have Cirhossa1. Hope the position of Admin. is filled without too many problems. Good luck!

[Guest]

Oh thank you Dublin Bay,

 

I'm hoping it's smoothing out now too.

 

Many thanks for your support (and everyone else's).

 

I'm still trying to get my County to join the forum, but no luck. Someone said, it was 'similar to what you'd get from a magazine'!

 

I don't agree!!

[HappyMaz]

Oh thank you Dublin Bay,

 

I'm hoping it's smoothing out now too.

 

Many thanks for your support (and everyone else's).

 

I'm still trying to get my County to join the forum, but no luck. Someone said, it was 'similar to what you'd get from a magazine'!

 

I don't agree!!

I don't know how much it costs for an LEA to join, but I'd say it was well worth it. Not least because there would be a central place to disseminate information. Vastly superior to any magazine subscription anyway - the editor isn't there at two in the morning to answer your questions, is s/he?

 

Maz