Any Sympathy For Me?

[Guest]

Just got in from a day at Univeristy.a very heated debate this afternoon left me feeling very demoralised and tearful.

We were discussing child protection (Safeguarding children!) and the issue of physical restraint came up well I have had to do this with a child - obviously it is a last resort but to protect other children it has been the only way to safeguard them and himself.

Well this debate got really personal and basically I was made to think I am wrong to do this...the parent, the educational psychologist, the area senco and FSA have all assessed the child and it is in writing that this is the last resort but indeed a method of calming the child, if you cup your arms around him and hug him (obviously gently) then he usually calms down and nearby children are safe, he has attacked a child with scissors before and also tried to strangle a child therefore this is deemed a solution that we use if all else fails.......we are constantly and continually observing him and doing all the things we should to identify better ways of helping him.

 

A student was so harsh about this to me, she suggested I get more training and that I was wrong to be doing this, I am a quiet member of the group and have (with my new leader position) have steadily built up confidence now today in one fowl swoop I feel demoralised and feel I won't add my bit any more, I feel tearful and hurt.

 

Sorry needed to vent this.

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Guest

[belle06]

Hi shirel

I am so sorry you have had such a bad day I always feel that we can not really judge other peoples practice unless we work in that situation all people and all situations need dealing with differently. was your tutor not present could you not mention to them how the session left you feeling. I would also be tempted next week to take a photocopy of your paperwork showing this is an acceptable form of restraing (removing identifying names e.t.c) and have great pleasure in showing it to the person/people who made you feel so demoralized. Keep your chin up you know you are acting correctly and have the knowledge that you are professionally enough to accept that not all things are black and white and you are safeguarding all the children in your care. Sending virtuaL HUGS TO YOU

[Guest]

Hi Shirel

 

I'm so sorry you were left feeling like this. We all know that no-one goes into physical restraint lightly, it is something that we all try to avoid! Not just because of the paperwork involved but also because of the children.

 

I feel very strongly that yes many situations can be avoided with planning and foresight but frankly there will be times when for the safety of the child or other children PR is needed, though hopefully these are few and far between and only for a very small percentage of students. As you say, you have the support of the parent, ed psyc area SENCo and FSA so you are doing what has been advised.

 

Maybe the rest of your group hasn't had to deal with a child like this?

 

It sounds like you are doing the best for all the children in your care.

Edited November 6, 2007 by annie d

[tess]

Oh Shirel please don't be hard on yourself. You have obviously taken lots of advice and gained help with this child and a a caring practitioner you know the child in your care. None of us use physical restraint lightly, as we are aware of the consequences.

 

Please speak again on your course, every one should think carefully about what they are saying. We all have experiences and we can learn from each other - she may have to restrain herself the next day.

 

I am astounded on my course a few weeks ago when a teaching assistant was moaning about the kids in her school saying how violent they were, i tried to stick up for the children as they come from a deprived area and most live in high rise blocks and come from one parent families and really need help. I have run the brownie pack in her area for the last 20 years - so thought I had an worthy view.

Obviously not as I was told I didn't know anything about it. I'm not trying again either and I've actually moved tables, as i was so upset that someone caring for children who need help has such a low opinion of them. There are some great kids in the are, they all deserve a chance - I have many with behaviour problems - but we make Brownies fun and i don't have any problems.

 

If people are not willing to try and listen and learn why do these courses

[Deb]

Hi Shirel

 

It's all too easy for hurtful comments to undermine our confidence, I know from your posts that you are a caring professional so please try not to allow it to.

 

You have clearly worked with the child's parents and other professionals in meeting the needs of this child. As you say, physical restraint is obviously a very last resort but there are occasions when it is necessary and perhaps this person who rather rudely said you required more training has less experience than you.

 

The new EYFS states 'physical intervention should only be used to manage a child's behaviour to prevent personal injury to the child, other children or an adult, to prevent serious damage to property, or in what would reasonably be regarded as exceptional circumstances. Any occasion where physical intervention is used to manage a child's behaviour should be recorded and parents shoud be informed about it on the same day.' So it clearly can be used as you say as a last resort.

 

Could you let your tutor know how hurtful these comments were?

 

Chin up!

[Guest]

Thanks all of you, thankyou for the EYFS reference Deb your so kind

[Susan]

Shirel,

I have recently updated my child protection training, we were warned at the beginning that we should beware of divulging personal information and that it could be very difficult.

 

Dont feel badly of yourself because you have reacted like this.You know that you acted in the way that you needed to protect the child himself and others in your care and that it has been validated by other professionals.

 

Take care of yourself tonight and try not to let it affect the way you are able to interact on you course.

[Guest]

Shirel

 

You are acting a very professional person and you do this by providing a safe environment for you rhcildren in your setting and there are times where you have to apply more to prevent this from happening, however you are working closely with other professionals and that are aware and require this method. Obviously people are aware so its not as if you are doing it out of spite or anything.

So Shirel keep up the great work and chin up as this person is obviously not totally familiar with this kind of environment that is required. I speak from experience.

 

your a star!

[Guest]

sorry terrible spelling tonight!

[HappyMaz]

I felt very angry on your behalf reading your post, Shirel.

 

One of the basic ground rules in the classroom is that every learner has the right to have their opinion heard, without bias and certainly without being attacked for their views. You were obviously trying very hard to put your valid views about the subject in the light of your own personal experience - and this experience has been backed up by professionals whose advice you were following when dealing with a child who certainly sounds very challenging.

 

Did you get any support from your tutor? If you left the classroom feeling demoralised and disheartened it certainly sounds as if you didn't get the right type or amount of support that you needed - and who can blame you for feeling the way you do now.

 

If it had happened to me I would be asking my tutor to re-iterate the rules for group discussions, and make it known that this sort of behaviour won't be tolerated in future. You have just as much right to be able to express your opinion - and your opinions are just as worth expression - as others on the course. If fellow learners can't respect you or your views without support, then the tutors should certainly be giving that support to maintain a healthy level of debate and discussion. The way to begin this process is to make sure your tutor knows how you feel about what happened and how it has the potential to affect your learning on the course.

 

Please don't let this experience prevent you from speaking up in future - group discussion is a really good way of exploring ideas and feelings in a safe way. It is up to your tutors to ensure that they provide a safe place for this kind of discussion to take place - I hope you feel able to stand up for your right to be heard and that the tutors will help this happen.

 

Be good to yourself Shirel - trade in these virtual hugs from some real ones from someone close and if that doesn't work, try chocolate and wine. Or if you're like me, just the chocolate will do fine!

 

Let us know how this resolves itself.

 

Maz

[louby loo]

Just want to ditto what others have said - especially Maz.

 

It's very easy for someone without experience of certain situations to 'take the moral highground' - like you I've had to use PR on an child, BECAUSE it was required - in fact the child benefited hugely from it! - it was the only way she could release any emotion.

 

 

Like you I used to be very quite - but I'm not sure what's happened to my now 'cos I'll take on anyone in class!!! Stick with it ((((((((((((((((xx))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Guest]

Thankyou all of you - big thanks Maz, I did have a chat and hug with my husband and that alongside all your positive posts I feel better about it.

On reflection I don't feel I was supported by my tutor, she is a very timid woman herself and perhaps was a little intimidated -

I also forgot to mention the student in question had said she had had wine at lunch time and I am now wondering whether that had an impact on her - she wouldn't let anyone talk really - I had an email from another student to see if I was ok and she intimated that most students were quite shocked at the aggression shown to me. Put it down to experience - I hate confrontation of any sort.

 

Thanks again for all your support.

[dublinbay]

Hear! Hear! Maz.

Exactly what I wanted to say.

You have a right to be heard Shirel - don't go quiet - It is hard-working caring professionals like youself that we all hope to aspire to.

Hopefully your attacker will see sense before next week and apologise for shouting you down. She has the right to her opinion being heard but then so do you.

Can't supply the wine or the chocolate but many virtual hugs coming down the line!!!

[Guest]

This post brought to mind an e-mail someone sent me recently about other people's garbage being dumped on you. Have a read and if its for you then add it to your philosophy for life. It seems each week our shoulders have to get broader and our skins a little thicker - what's all that about? Why can't we be considerate of one another, respectful of each other's feelings and acknowledge that we are all different?

God bless and keep on doing what you're doing!

GARBAGE_TRUCK.doc

[Guest]

Shirel

 

Please don't let judgemental people prevent you from speaking out in open discussions, as others have said, she was not in your setting and has no idea of the child/case - you know you did and do the right things for this child's benefit and the others in your setting.

 

Having read LGW's'Garbage Truck' - i think she must have regurgitated some garbage along with the wine

 

I also had a day yesterday which left me feeling like I'm useless and wanting to resign - However, i think I'll take on 'Garbage Truck' and just smile and do the best that i am able, within the context of my setting - what more can we all do?

 

...Don't let the bxxxxxxxs get you down

 

Sam

[Guest]

Sam - I printed it out, read it and re-read it - thankyou LJW - Brilliant and so true.

 

I hope your day is better today Sam.

[Lou]

Hi

I agree with everything that has been said. I have witnessed a young lady being bullied in a class room and it was not nice. If it was not for being able to restrain some children they would not beable to access mainstream settings. If this person was just belittling you she was a bully and nothing more. You follow the advice you have been given.

[Beau]

Shirel,

 

Everyone has said everything already but just wanted to add my support. Fortunately life isn't black and white, there are many colours and hues in the world and it takes a skilled and professional practitioner to understand that and be able to act in different ways to different situations. Hopefully one day that student in your group will come to learn and appreciate that but at the moment she is clearly not ready to. The fact that one other person took the time to email you with those thoughts then probably many others in the group were thinking and feeling the same, so the only person here who should be feeling bad is her not you!

[Andreamay]

Feeling a bit vulnerable myself at mo but want to send you some lurve

[Guest]

Hi Shirel,

 

see what a stir you have made, we all seem to be backing you up and I think you seem to understand you health and safety policies really well and if I had a space I'd be happy to employ someone with such a good understanding, don't let it get you down, your uni colleagues obviously haven't been in this position and have high judgements on situations.

 

Here's an example of my day yesterday:

 

Yesterday, I had to restrain a child after her intentionally kicked a staff member twice, then pinched and hit me.

 

I restrained until he hurt me (I had open palms and was gentle), and I used a calm voice to soothe him, yet if I hadn't he throws tables and chairs, which obviously can seriously hurt others!!!

 

The only thing I would add is that I wrote it all down in our confidential incident book to protect myself, the child and the pre-school.

 

After all my staff member could have a serious injury and may need to use the incident book as proof to get our insurance company to pay out for medical fees.

 

Stick to your guns, believe in yourself and trust your gut feeling, you are right!

 

Take care,

Abby

[Deb]

Shirel it seems that it is not just you that needs the support of your tutor, at least one other person felt sufficiently upset by the discussion that they emailed you with support.

 

Nobody likes confrontation but this situation could put off less confident members of your tutor group from making a comment lest they be told they need more training!

 

Are you able to email your tutor using many of the sound comments received on this thread to express how you felt, especially now you have had a chance to recover slightly? The least she could do it to go over the rules for discussion the next time you meet even if she doesn't want to refer to the specific discussion. She might not know it upset you.

 

Hope you're feeling better today.

[Marion]

Pleased you are feeling better

[Susan]

This guidance is for schools and is non statutory but could be relevant to some.

[Guest]

Hope you are feeling much better, lots of excellent comments already.

 

She was wrong and you were right.

 

Physical restraint is part and parcel of our professional role. If when on an outing a child ran out in the road, we would use physical restraint to safeguard that child.

 

I wonder if the wine affected her ability to listen AND HEAR, from you, what I am sure was a sound, responsible argument.

 

If I was you I would write out the extract from the EYFS, and the schools guidance, give it to the student and say to her " If you require any further information, please don't hesitate to ask" with the biggest smile on my face. (friendly, not sarcastic)

 

I would also let the tutor know how you were made to feel and that you don't expect to be treated that way again during your studies.

 

 

 

Peggy

[Guest MaryEMac]

Have only just caught up with this Shirel. All the wise words have been said so I will ditto them and send you my best wishes.

 

Mary

[Sue R]

Sorry I wasn't here for you, shirel, but I join with everyone else!

 

As an ex-PLA tutor, I'm appalled that could have happened in ANY place where studies were supposed to be happening. I would have been very angry if it had happened in any of my sessions.

 

Sue