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i folks... I seem to be getting all the difficult problems this week; first with dummies and now with pull ups. We a re a school nursery and take 3-4 year olds. t has always been our procedure to say no to pull ups unless there is a medical reason for the child still needing to be in them. I have read with interest the threads re pull ups but wanted to know were exactly is it written down in the discrimination act regarding this issue.

I dont want to continue with this poilcy unless by law should be allowing any child in with pull ups so some clarification would be most welcome by anyone out there

cheers and lets hope my next posting will be something like... what to hide in the sand tray... and don't anyone dare say those blooming dummies :o

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Sorry can remember where it is written now, but you are discrminating if you say to a child of 3 or 4 you cant come to nursery because for some reason you are not incontrol of your bodily functions.

Yes some children will have some medicaly defined reason, but some others simply are not quite there yet. You are saying they cannot continue with any education based on this one issue.

If you are saying if child x has medical problem then its ok, I presume you have space to change if needed, then why would it be different for child z?

Of course you want to encourgae parents to get their children as ready as they can but dont think you can say no. Will have a look for where I have seen it written down.

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Found this...

Achieving continence is one of hundreds of developmental milestones usually reached within the context of learning in the home before the child transfers to learning in a nursery/school setting. In some cases this one developmental area has assumed significance beyond all others. Parents are sometimes made to feel guilty that this aspect of learning has not been achieved, whereas other delayed learning is not so stigmatising.

 

Definition of Disability in DDA

 

The DDA provides protection for anyone who has a physical, sensory or mental impairment that has an adverse effect on his/her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. The effect must be substantial and long-term.

It is clear therefore that anyone with a named condition that affects aspects of personal development must not be discriminated against. However, it is also unacceptable to refuse admission to other children who are delayed in achieving continence. Delayed continence is not necessarily linked with learning difficulties. However, children with global developmental delay which may not have been identified by the time they enter nursery or school are likely to be late coming out of nappies.

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Definition of Disability in DDA

 

The DDA provides protection for anyone who has a physical, sensory or mental impairment that has an adverse effect on his/her ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities. The effect must be substantial and long-term.

It is clear therefore that anyone with a named condition that affects aspects of personal development must not be discriminated against. However, it is also unacceptable to refuse admission to other children who are delayed in achieving continence. Delayed continence is not necessarily linked with learning difficulties. However, children with global developmental delay which may not have been identified by the time they enter nursery or school are likely to be late coming out of nappies.

 

 

thanks so much for that akire. I was pretty sure there would be something written down. However, it is quite woolly still; while we would by no means refuse children with a 'named condition' I suppose what I am after now is advice on helping parents to assist their child in gaining continence. As the children are only in the nursery part time i.e 2.5 hours per day, I thought it would be reasonable to suggest that the parent sends them in pants and a change of clothes and we change as and when necessary thereby getting over the potential hazard of disposing of nappies/pull ups.

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Hi Glad you found that helpful, Why do you think having them in pants is going to be better or easier than pull ups? In my extensive experience of potty training you would be changing them every few minutes every time they did a little dribble!! And also you have the problem of wet chairs, carpets, floors etc which means spending more time sorting out the mess, plus the risk of other children slipping/touching it while you notice/clean it up.

While if you stick with pull ups, the child has no embarrsment as nonone else is really going to be able to tell, While they might get teased if they are always having accidents.

Most pull ups can cope with a nursery session fine, and the only time you would need to was if they solied them. In which case you could also seal up and send home, or deal with it as you would if this was a full time arrangement.

Obviously you dont want to encourage them being in pull ups any longer than is necessary and of course you will be changing wet pants when they do eventual move into them, but it seems you would be making more work for yourself.

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In reality, like almost every piece of new legislation, this will only really be put to the test when a setting refuses to admit a child who wears nappies or pull ups and then gets sued by the parent or carer of the child concerned. Then case law could in future be cited to clarify exactly what the terms of the Act has to say about admitting children in nappies or pull ups - whether the child has a medical reason or not.

 

In the meantime, I can't imagine any setting that imposes a ban on childen because they wear pull ups (because after all, in effect a 'no pull up' policy is just a ban on certain children attending) being supported by their Local Authority or Early Years and Childcare Service.

 

Most parents whose children are in pull ups when they visit are unaware that it is unlawful to discriminate against their children in this way, and assume they need to be fully toilet trained before they are allowed to start. So its always a pleasant surprise for them to be told that's not the case - great to be giving good news for once!

 

Maz

 

PS When I joined my group a few years ago, the policy was to accept children wearing nappies or pull ups, but to call mum if they needed changing... How times change!

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I don't understand why any group would want to refuse a child who is still in nappies/pull-ups.They take a moment or two to change, and has to be better than children peeing (or worse!) all over the floors/furniture. If they aren't ready, then they aren't ready, for whatever reason.Part of our job is to look after the children and to help them to develop, so..........when I change nappies, I will always pop the child onto the potty, or toilet (their choice which) for a couple of minutes..sometimes they 'perform' sometimes they don't. As to worrying about how to dispose of nappies:give them back to the parents for disposal at home.It's what we do and no-one has ever queried this.I try not to get hung up over this issue, as all children 'get there' in the end, and some will ask to try the loo when they see all the others using them.

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beware about refusing or asking no nappies/pull ups.

 

we have NEVER said that but a parent still complained that we had and had Ofsted investigation and lots of hassle, you are in breach of several standards if you do not allow them!! It covered almost all of them, discrimination, child protection (neglect not to change them), working with parents, being just some of them.

 

we have since introduced a Nappy changing policy for all who may need a nappy changed and we have a copy signed by parent as to how often and when changed etc. happened twice to us even with the agreement, both were found 'no action' by Ofsted but the hassle and paperwork was beyond belief.

 

It is perfectly acceptable to send them home with the parent double bagged and tell them they are there for disposal. as said often easier to deal with than the floor, chair, child, etc from an accident or 5 during 2.5 hours.

Once settled we work out a plan with parent on toileting.

 

Inge

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Thankyou all so very much for such excellent advice... being new to all this it really helps to ahve such experienced and knowledgeable people on hand. I read all posts with great care and now feel far more confident about this issue... sorry it had taken me so long to get back... I was changing a child :o

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