laura Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Hello I'm just in the process of sorting out pay for mum's pre-school staff and I know that the holiday entitlement is increasing to 4.8 weeks. I was just wondering how this works when staff are only employed to work 38 weeks a year. Do they still get the 4.8 weeks or do you work it out that as because they work a certain amount of the year they get the equivalent in holiday pay? My mum has always paid her part time staff 3 weeks holiday pay. I had a look on the government direct website but it only talks about full time or part time staff working all year. Can anyone help? I'm feeling confused Thanks Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Hi Laura I didn't know the holiday entitlement was changing to 4.8 weeks. How did you come across this little nugget of information? We work 38 weeks, and we currently pay 4 weeks annual leave (which I thought was the minimum). The way I work it out for my staff is to divide 38 weeks by 4 so as to calculate how many weeks each member of staff has to work to accrue one week's holiday. That way I know exactly what holiday is due when someone leaves. Our holiday year starts in April, so in practice I pay one week's holiday at Easter, one in July and two weeks at Christmas. The staff seem to prefer having the extra money at Christmas! Obviously if anyone wanted their holiday paid exactly as it accrues I would do this. I'm not sure how I'll work out 4.8 week's holiday pay - perhaps I'd need to convert to hours worked and do it that way. Otherwise I'm not sure how I'd work out the 0.8 of two sessions's hours... I'd be interested to know when the entitlement is changing - and why! Or perhaps I've just been neglecting my duties again. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted August 27, 2007 Author Share Posted August 27, 2007 Hi Maz Mum always worked holiday pay for the past 12 weeks worked and averaged it out so they got paid holiday at christmas, easter and summer hols. That was something that dad did, and when he died we just carried on. I read about the increase in the inland revenue magazine. It comes into force in october sometime... and the great news is... it increases again in april 09 to 5 weeks and something! How do they expect us to afford all this holiday Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 just had a letter from my evening work (carer) people whom have said the same thing I only work two evenings a week but i will be entilted to more holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Hi MazMum always worked holiday pay for the past 12 weeks worked and averaged it out so they got paid holiday at christmas, easter and summer hols. That was something that dad did, and when he died we just carried on. I read about the increase in the inland revenue magazine. It comes into force in october sometime... and the great news is... it increases again in april 09 to 5 weeks and something! How do they expect us to afford all this holiday Laura Thanks Laura - looks as if I need to do some research. Five weeks' holiday seems a lot of holiday - almost another term (or half term, depending on your outlook!). Not that I begrudge them their pay - nor could I pay them what they're worth. I'm off to the Inland Revenue website... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 OK, so here's the information from the Inland Revenue website. Rather than put in a link (which I can't seem to do!) I've copied it directly:- "The statutory holiday entitlement has changed – from 1 October 2007, the entitlement will increase from four weeks to 4.8 weeks (24 days if you work a five-day week). A further increase to 5.6 weeks (28 days if you work a five-day week) will take place from 1 April 2009." Then I looked at the FAQs:- "How do you calculate the additional entitlement for someone working term-time only? You need to calculate how many hours a week is worked on average over the whole year. So if a worker works 40 hours a week for 40 weeks of the year, they work a total of 1,600 hours a year, or 33⅓ hours a week over 48 weeks of the year. The holiday entitlement is 4.8 weeks x 33⅓ hours a week = 160 hours holiday for the year." Now I'm going to have to go away and work all this out... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Help! Now I'm really confused. Here's how I work out holiday pay for a staff member who works ten hours a week (based on 38 weeks a year). 4 weeks' holiday pay at ten hours a week = 40 hours If I work it out as per the Inland Revenue, it looks like this:- 38 weeks at 10 hours/week = 380 hours. Divide by 48 (52 weeks minus the four holiday weeks) = 7.92 7.92 x 4 = 31.68 hours. Does this mean I'm paying almost 8 hours' holiday pay too much? Or am I completely on the wrong track? Maz PS Using my way of calculating, I'd pay an extra 32 hours' holiday pay in the example shown in the Inland Revenue's answer to the FAQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 And it is getting worse... Looking around the FAQ section, I came across this:- "How do you calculate the holiday entitlement for someone working casually or working very irregular hours? It may well be easiest to calculate the holiday entitlement that accrues as hours are worked. The holiday entitlement of 4.8 weeks’ is equivalent to 10.2% of hours worked. So if someone has worked 10 hours, they would be entitled to 61 minutes paid holiday. The holiday entitlement is just over 6 minutes for each hour worked." Does this mean I should be giving holiday pay to anyone I get in to do a few hours' staff cover..? I'm going to stop looking now. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth1 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Maz thats a good idea before you do get totally confused. In some of these interviews some of them don't even know that theres a change in the holiday entilements. Some do but are sticking to their normal holiday ie 20 days plus bank holidays, which is what given in some settings anyway. Beth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 hi i'm new to the site and have never replyed before but we get 4 weeks a year on an average of wot we earned 38 weekly earnings ADD 4 weeks holiday entitlement divide by 52 gives a pay for every week of the year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 That is exactly how we have always done it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 hi i'm new to the site and have never replyed before but we get 4 weeks a year on an average of wot we earned38 weekly earnings ADD 4 weeks holiday entitlement divide by 52 gives a pay for every week of the year Welcome to the forum philippa! I pay monthly, and one member of staff gets paid twelve months a year, but others get paid only during term time. If you get your holiday pay spread out over the course of the year, does your employer deduct any overpaid holiday if you should leave mid-way through the year? Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted August 28, 2007 Author Share Posted August 28, 2007 Thanks for all that info Maz I'll now have to sit down and work it all out! Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Hi I have been looking into this today, i have spent ages on the inland revenue website but i can't find any mention of the increase, can someone tell me where to look, Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I got to the FAQ section on the Department of Trade and Industry website:- www.dti.gov.uk/employment/holidays/faq/index.html#five It has lots of information about how to do calculations etc. Good luck... Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 but its now called Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Berr) not dti seems to do the same job though Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 Oh dear my head is still in a spin! As the part time staff increase hours over the year as children do more sessions no FAQ seems to fit. So I think what we might do is give them an average of their pay for christmas and easter and then in July work out how many hours they worked over the year and then use the appropriate formula and give them the extra they are owed. I can't logically see any other way of doing it at the moment. My head is hurting!!!! Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Welcome to the forum philippa! I pay monthly, and one member of staff gets paid twelve months a year, but others get paid only during term time. If you get your holiday pay spread out over the course of the year, does your employer deduct any overpaid holiday if you should leave mid-way through the year? Maz hI mAZ, cAN'T HELP WITH THE 4.8 WKS HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT CALCULATIONS, NOT GOT MY HEAD AROUND THAT YET BUT (Change to lower case) I may be able to help with your annual salary query (ie: paid over twelve months) What I do is use an excel sheet to keep ongoing calculations. attached is an example. I have used Vista but saved to earlier format but may have lost some of the format. Hope it helps. Peggy Example_pro_rata_wage_calculations.xls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyMaz Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 hI mAZ, cAN'T HELP WITH THE 4.8 WKS HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT CALCULATIONS, NOT GOT MY HEAD AROUND THAT YET BUT (Change to lower case) I may be able to help with your annual salary query (ie: paid over twelve months) What I do is use an excel sheet to keep ongoing calculations. attached is an example. I have used Vista but saved to earlier format but may have lost some of the format. Hope it helps. Peggy Ooh Peggy, thanks so much. Have saved it away for future reference... or rather until I can look at it with a hope of understanding how it works. I'm sure it will be very useful indeed. Maz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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