Children - Pooing!

[Guest valletta]

hi all,

 

don't laugh - but how do you all cope with children that ' poo ' in there pants and just stand there

 

we take children from 2-5yrs and many come in pull ups, suddenly we have children pooing in there pants and they are older! the younger children have there pull ups changed in a separtate room behind a close door with two members of staff present.

 

is it becaue we are taking them younger and younger now, how do we combat this - as originally we took them at 3yrs and fully dry, now we have opened the flood gates to 2yrs old because of dwindlling numbers, we have this problem we seem to be chasing the children around now checking pull ups etc - is this taking the fun out of pre school now

 

any advice on this please

[hali]

Hi Valletta

 

I sympathise with you on this one.

We also have started taking little ones in now and have the same problem....

Not a lot we can do if we accept them in pull ups is there.

[Sue R]

I sympathise, but afraid hali has it in a nutshell

 

- or should that be 'pull-up'?

 

But seriously, i would suggest you just peg away at 'expecting different things' of your older ones - or similar. We have similar probs in DN where I work when we have new influx from Toddler room to our Pre-school.

 

Good luck

 

Sue

[Guest valletta]

thanks for the advice - I will have to grin and poo it... sorry had to say it

[hali]

(your in good company)

[Guest]

Luverley subject eh - 'never work with children or animals' I think the saying is!

 

At our sessional Nursery we have separate sessions for the 2 - 3 yr olds run along the lines of 'playschool'. Because of the ratios for this age group we have a policy, drawn up in conjunction with parents, stating that it is not policy to change soiled nappies etc. although we will should staffing ratios allow. We will ring parents or other nominated person to pop in and change their child. Its an amazing incentive to get cracking with the potty training.... Of course we would not leave a child in a soiled nappy for long and if push comes to shove will change them but it can and does severely affect our ratios. Another point is that each time we change a soiled child we log it in a book and the parent/carer has to sign it. Its really for our protection (child protection issues) but again it seems to encourage the potty training process.

Good luck - no easy answer - had two 3 yr olds who peed all over the floor today!

[Guest]

We take children from 12 months onwards and so we go through the hole toilet training procedure with children and parents!

 

It is time consuming and appears never ending but it's best to look at it as a stage we all need to go through.

 

We need to remember that all children progress at different rates and within the nursery we have some two year olds who are fully toilet trained (day and night) and some three year olds who still have 'accidents'.

[Beau]

I have been reading this topic with interest. At the moment we take children from 2 1/2 but with numbers dropping off it is increasingly difficult for us to stay financially viable. We are squeezed at one end by state nurseries which are now taking 3yr olds and messy two groups which take toddlers from 2yrs. I feel it is only a matter of time before we are forced to take children from 2yrs as well. Our council has recently issued a statement saying that groups cannot refuse to take a child on the basis of not being toilet trained. Therefore even some of my 3yr olds are still in nappies and this seems to be on the up too. At the end of the day I think we'll just have to accept the fact that this is part of our job description and find ways of making the whole business as stress free as possible. As far as it taking the fun out of preschool I think the mountain of paperwork is to blame for that and the ever increasing pressure we all feel to be delivering educational activities at the cost of everthing else. We are all losing sight of the fact that providing care for these children is more than that. We are looking after the child as a whole - pooey nappies and all!!

[Helen]

Good point there, Beau. Very young children poo in their pull-ups/pants....it's a fact of life!

To make it marginally more pleasant changing nappies, we could all take note of the BTTM video, where a practitioner is interacting with the child whilst changing his nappy....chatting, lots of smiles and eye-contact, telling him what's happening, helping the child to wash hands, telling him why, etc etc. It, like many other routines in the preschool, is an opportunity for learning.

[Guest]

I agree Helen - every experience should be seen as a learning opportunity. Nappy changing within our setting is undertaken in a relaxed manner with staff talking/singing to the child. We find that if the child has 'nice' nappy changing times the progression to sitting on a potty or toilet appears to be less stressful, as it's seen as a positive 'happy' time.

Does that make sense???

[Sue R]

Lots of sense, Sue!!

 

Sue

[Guest]

I go along with Helen and Sue!

 

My best times at pre-school are in the toilets.

 

For some reason, our girls presently are much more capable and independent in that field than the boys.

 

Mind you, it took me a long time to learn about little boys - my three children are all girls - and before I started here 5 years ago, I had never before taken a boy to the toilet, let alone changed a boy's nappy.

 

Nappy changing time is actually quite a happy time. As I say, it is currently only boys (and a fair few of then) who need changing. Our EAL's vocabulary now includes "magic gloves" ..... and on a more serious note, "feel", "wash hands", "wet", "dry", etc., etc., and he has learned so many rhymes. The ASD comes with me willingly to be changed (I now no longer have to show him a clean nappy). He expects "run, rabbit, run" before I undress him. He also likes to feel my magic gloves, before and after I put them on, and is totally compliant.

 

Since we are a pre-school, I am personally averse to potties - the hand basins in our toilets are not large enough to allow a potty to be properly cleaned. I encourage all children to use the toilet - and it generally works. With parental consent, I even give those in nappies the chance to try the toilet at least once in each session.

 

On the PSED side, it's not just independence that is being fostered, it's also waiting in the queue for the toilet (one only for the boys), helping each other with hand washing and drying, and all the lovely social chit-chat that takes place.

 

On the whole curriculum side - imagine the excitement when we find not just one, but two, huge spiders on the rotting door frame in the toilets!

 

Hence, I still plan to write the book (how to deliver the entire FS curriculum without ever leaving the toilet).

 

Diane.

[Sue R]

 

Sue

[Guest doohanok5]

Brilliant Diane, put me down for a signed copy!

[Beau]

But what will the title of your follow up book be?

[Sue R]

Always got to have the last word, haven't you, Carol!!

 

Sue

[Guest]

The next one will be "I'm coming out now, we have all washed our hands, and I understand the ELG's"

 

Diane.

[hali]

[Guest]

Hi, I wondered what you had in terms of a policy on changing children at school? We need to get a policy together as our council have said that we cannot turn children away if they are not toilet trained ( our nursry starts at 3 years old) We obviously change children who have accidents but dont have a policy for this. ( whoops)

[Guest]

Hi Fiona

We don't have a separate policy for changing children-it is part of our health, safety and hygiene policy. It includes information about wearing disposable gloves and aprons, disposing of soiled nappies and pull-ups, disinfecting the changing mat etc.

Linda

[Guest]

Thanks Linda, I will add a paragraph in our policy too.

[Guest]

Earlier in this topic someone said that they always have two staff present to change a nappy. Do other people follow this procedure or have it as a policy too? One of the recommendations for our PLA accreditation is that no member of staff should ever be alone with a child or children. I understand the reasons behind this, it's just that we have 3 staff for 17 children aged 2 years 9 months to 5.

 

Carolyn

[Inge]

it not only the younger children but many children seem to be staying in nappies a lot longer than in the past. we are having a problem with a couple of parents where the child is able to cope without a nappy but the parent insists on them wearing one.. just in case.. One parent even puts a nappy on her child the minuite she had collected from us but the child has been clean dry and using the toilet with us for weeks. The ultimate was when she was putting a nappy on in ful view of all the parents and when her child said 'need a wee' she said 'wait til I put your nappy on then you can go!!!' we were all stunned and really didnt know what to say to that one.

 

we have decided that it could be the super efficient nappies around now. If a child does not feel wet how do they understand consequences of weeing? we have found that if we ask for no nappies and spare pants the children only wet once or twice dislike the feeling and progress to toilet quite quickly, also helps seeing other children do this as well.

 

we too do not allow potties, toilet only with a seat (that a parent donated and is very good) No where to wash them (in a church hall, not a good idea in the same sink as hand washing, even if it was big enough. )

 

So far we have been lucky as soiling does not seem to be a regular occurence, but we only take children from 3 years and they may have a bit more control and go after meals or a regular time before they stay with us.

 

we too have been told we cannot stipulate that a child must be clean and dry or call in parents to change nappies as this would be discrimination

 

Inge

[Posy]

Well it's obvious;

'flush with success - how to encourage children towards independence'

 

or-the phonic book

 

'I'll have a pee please'

 

Barb (apologies in advance).

[Guest]

May I hazard a guess "Inspector flushed down the loo", (to retrieve all the lost paperwork of course).

 

We have urinals in our "boys" toilet, one parent was very proud when her son used the urinal for the first time "He's a real man now" she gleamed

 

Peggy

[Guest]

We have had children start our nursery recently aged 3-4 yrs who are not potty trained- they have turned up in pull-ups and wet and had accidents 1 after the other. I have now on 3 occassions said right no pull ups to the parents put them in their pants and we have (touch wood) not had one accident from the 3 children. of course with this comes lots of praise, but Im just pleased it has worked! We too need to sort out a policy from September as I have a boy with Down's syndrome starting and who will be wearing nappies¬ so thanks for all the advice!

[Inge]

To continue the debate a bit...

 

Out of interest how does everyone deal with soiled nappies, particularly if you operate from a hall or community centre rather than a nursery? Where or how do you dispose of them?

 

This has been under discussion with us for a while and we have come to no correct solution... all our training gives differrent solutions... help....what is the correct procedure?

 

Inge

[Guest]

Hi Inge

I don't think there is a correct procedure-it all depends on the setting you are in. We dispose of soiled nappies and pull-ups by putting soilings down the toilet and then placing the nappies/pull-ups into a nappy sack and then into a supermarket bag. This is then placed in the bin at the end of the morning which is left out on a daily basis for the rubbish collection. We only ever have a soiled nappy/pull-up once every now and again so this works ok for us. If you were in a day nursery with babies or you found you had to change children quite a lot then a disposable nappy unit would be the way to go. We had one once but found we weren't using it often enough to make it necessary.

Linda

[Inge]

Thanks linda,

 

we have always been told not to put it in the daily rubbish but as you say 1 a week at most does justify the need of a special unit.

 

Inge

[Rea]

We do pretty much the same as Linda, only our bins are emptied monthly (it's a big one outside) but it's rare to need it.