In Danger Of Closing

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

I desperately need suggestions on how to keep our pre-school open.

 

It is a lack of children in my area that has caused us problems. Last year the committee used up our buffer to keep us going and now we have no money and very few children to keep us afloat in September.

 

They are going to hand us all our notice in the middle of June and as the pre-school has been going for over 30 years it seems sad to let it close without a fight. (yes I know I am looking at it through rose coloured glasses, but I don't want to see it close).

 

We are fund raising and visiting local toddler groups in the hope of drumming up some more trade but it is still not looking hopeful.

 

We are also considering dropping some sessions and opening for only 3. On top of that we have to move out of our premisis as it will be demolished in a years time. We have found a place to go to.

 

Any advice please

 

Thanks in anticipation, Gizzy

[Guest]

I think visiting local toddler groups and any advertising at all that you can do is a good way to go. If you put yourselves out there in the community then people will see that you are committed to keeping the group going.

Have you thought about contacting the local press for them to do an article-its worth trying as you have been open so long. This might drum up interest in places that you can't get to.

Dropping sessions may help also-at least then you are not spreading the few children you have too thinly. We limited our afternoon sessions last year so that they only had 3 to choose from and that bumped the numbers up.

The problem with the lack of children is just something you can't get round though. Is it for any reason that the numbers have dropped, like a new nursery opening? What age do you take them from? Is it possible to lower your age intake?

I really feel for you. I know we have lost a lot of groups in Stockport over the last 5-10 years and it is always sad when one closes.

Let us know how you get on

Linda

[hali]

Oh Gizzy that is awful..

Please keep on fighting..dont loose heart.

Put out fliers, posters anything you can think of around your area.

Do your local early years do anything (ours do recuitment days etc for pre schools)to get you noticed.

Plead to your local papers..get an advert in..keep on fundraising..do a :angry:auction where people donate gifts, write to companies pleading for donations(tell them why your doing it) or offers of babysitting, dog walking etc that you can aution. We are only a samll pre school but raised over £1000 last nov to in an auction.

have you discussed this awful situation with early years and can they not help in any way...

Dont loose heart....

[Sue R]

Hi Gizzy

 

This is awful!! Too many groups are facing this - and you do such a good job.

 

The pre-school where I used to Supervise recently had a similar crisis, they used the local press, highlighting good Ofsted reports, over 30 years, mums now used to attend as children etc, also dropped age to 2, reduced PM sessions. All this has been suggested I know - really a show of solidarity. They are still open at the moment.

 

I wish you every success, will be rooting for you.

 

Sue

[Beau]

I know this is an awful suggestion but you said you were 'all' being given notice in June. How many members of staff do you have? The numbers at my playgroup have dropped consistently over the years. Now there is just me on my own (with 10 children and a duty helper) - at one time there were 4 members of staff. Staff wages are such a big financial drain on a small group. We apply for lots of different grants each year and the committee do a great job fundraising which helps to keep us afloat. We also cut down to 3 sessions a week. There are many new houses being built in the village and so I am always hopeful that the numbers will eventually pick up again and things won't always be such a struggle. I hope you can manage to sort something out.

[Susan]

I'm afraid I can only offer you good wishes.

 

Susan

[Steve]

Hi Gizzy -

Sorry to hear your news! How many children do you currently have, and how many staff?

 

Are there any other local pre-schools? And do you know if the lack of children is long term or if you're just going through a demographic dip?

[Guest]

Thanks all of you,

 

Beau, there are 6 staff in total but only 3 per session, if we dropped sessions some of them would have to go. We have so few children that not many volunteer to do parent help.

 

Sue, we are already taking 2 1/2 year olds and to be honest don't fancy 2 year olds, how do you cope with them being so young and in many cases immature? You say you dropped some pm sessions how many do you do in total? We also offered a lunch club for £2 per session but not much of a take up!

 

Hali, we have our local MP coming in soon, this was arranged months ago. We also had our local newspaper do an article on our ofsted report which I am pleased to say was a good one, with a couple of minor points which the paper worte about

 

Linda, I think alot of our parent want fullday care 9am - 6pm which we can't and wont offer. I hope our visiting toddler groups and putting out leaflets will help us.

 

Thanks Susan for your good wishes.

 

I hope we will still be here in September, but with our treasurer keen to hand us our notice I doubt it.

 

 

Thanks for all your suggestions, Gizzy

 

(tiddily, after a few glasses of wine due to a bad day, but feeling a bit happier having read your messages )

[Guest]

Hi steve, took me so long to post my reply that you got in there,

We have 6 staff in total and 24 children, we are registered to take 24 a session but at the moment are up to under 18 and in one session only 8 per session.

As to projected numbers, where I am there are 1.1 children per place but by 2006 there will be .8 per place, so I think it is a low birthrate thing, we also have a few pre-schools in our area although only one other where we are. I wish it was a demgraphic dip, I think I could cope with that. Our school takes in children in September so that term is always a bad one for us.

 

Gizzy

[Steve]

Hi Gizzy -

It was just a thought, but I remember you said elsewhere that you were moving premises anyway soon. If there are other pre-schools it's quite possible that they are struggling too. Would it not be feasible to approach one of them and see if there is scope for working together in some way?

 

It might work either as one larger setting, or as a couple of smaller ones with fewer sessions in each.

 

I guess it depends on whether they are private or committee run/charitable, but I thought I'd mention it anyway!

[Sue R]

Gizzy,

 

Steve's beaten me to it, I was going to suggest a possible amalgamation/partnership.

 

Don't know how my old group cope with younger ones, left before it happened - husband got redundancy notice so someone had to earn bigger pennies!!

 

Miss it tho'

 

Keep smilin'

Sue

[bubblejack]

Gizzy I too had a similiar problem but mine was not lack of children but lack of premises. If I couldn't have found new premises I was going to join with another group to provide day care. As Steve says is these a feasible idea for you. My staff would have done the morning sessions together with lunch club. The original staff were going to do the afternoon sessions. The insurance and Ofsted registration fee would increase but would be halved. Pre-schools can provide cheaper day-care than day-care nurseries in my area.Ask your Early Years if there is any funding available. Does the group belong to the PSLA.they may have funds for groups in hardship. Will your new provider except a lower rent. Your rent to them is guaranteed if you have funded children. I am sorry I don't have any other ideas than those already suggested . I wish you the very best of luck in staying open.

[Guest]

Hi there gizzy !!!!!

 

Was thinking about this and wondering whether you could look at changing the service you are offering. How about just going down to 2 hours or whatever it is, so that it is more like a creche and then build up hours when numbers pick up - as you can see I don't know anything about the 'ins & outs' but I am sure someone does.

 

But also don't totally dismiss the 2 yr olds. As you know we were in the same position last Sept., and then once word got round that we take them early, we now have 40 on roll. Have heard of another pre-school in our area that is applying to change their reg. to take them from 2 too.

 

It's up to you how many you take - depending on space and staffing etc - but it isn't as bad as you think it is going to be. Sometimes the settling in takes longer - the younger ones also have their own circle time - I have 3 different circle time groups going on per morning - but they generally just mix in & play along with the others. I am not overly struck on the nappies, but that just goes with it !!!!!!!!

 

Anyway, it certainly made financial sense for us !!!!!

 

Bye for now

 

Janice

[Guest]

Thanks all,

 

Have a comittee meeting on Thursday will see what they think about 2 year olds we are already registered to take them as well as being full daycare. I know it worked for you Janice.

 

Steve, the other Nursery in our area is VERY different to us and we would not go together at all well, we are very much learning through play and they very formal and teaching orientated, but thanks for the idea anyway.

 

Gizzy

[Guest]

Hi Gizzy

 

I know just how you must be feeling. We are having to close down after 30 years.

 

We are a private group and hire the hall from our local council. Unfortunately the hall is in such a bad state and the council will not spend any money on it or even find us another hall (or room, yes we are that desperate!).

 

Obviously we have had to let our parents know and all those who were on our waiting list, consequently those parents have had to find another preschool for their child/ren. So I'm sure you can imagine the numbers dropped. We now have on average a very lively 14 children a day.

At Easter the proprietor of the group threatened closure. The only way that I as Supervisor was able to keep the group going was to offer to work for nothing and drop staff numbers. I was so adamant that I did not want to end at Easter, this was the only thing I could do. We all wanted to see 'our' children go onto to the Infant School. It was not only for this reason, but the parents would not have been able to find anywhere else for their children to go back to after Easter as all the groups in our area were closed for 2 weeks for the Easter hols.

 

Unfortunately there has been a lack of communication, and the Council had gone ahead and arranged for the gas and electric to be cut off, and for the place to be boarded up! Help!!! I hasten to add this has now been sorted.

 

I really do wish you all the best of luck and hope you get things sorted very soon. It's so disheartening isn't it when you make progress with your group only to be knocked back.

[Guest]

really sorry to hear about your struggle to stay open, things can turn around sometimes. have you had any help from branch level of the psla?

sometimes downsizing staff is the only answer for a while, although I know that hurts. I wish you all the best

[Guest]

Hi Mermaid and jacquiD,

I know exactly how you feel, we are trying our hardest to get numbers up but things are not looking hopeful. Our "Open morning" resulted in one new Child the others that came are already coming to us. We need 10 extra children for September.

We are running with 3 staff a session and although we have only 8 on one morning (lucky you to have 14) I won't run with only 2 staff and no parent volunteer to help for obvious health and safety reasons. I am beginning to think we unfortunatly will close. Maybe the staff could buy the place and run it our selves. They are not very keen on going with no pay, though I must admit I don't charge for things I buy and have paid for a few extra subscriptions myself.

Our PDW is coming to a meeting with the treasure on Thursday which I am going to but even she thinks we will close.

 

Hope your situation improves Mermaid.

 

Gizzy

[Rea]

Hi Gizzy, we were in the same position this time last year. Low numbers and it affected our bank balance badly. I put a leter out saying we were in danger of closing and the response was great. We gained new committee members who took over the finances, fundraising and advertising. Obviously there are only so many children out there, but once the money aspect was sorted it gave us breathing space. Four staff job shared for a while and volunteered some time (low wage is better than no wage) and we worked hard to encourage the children to stay instead of going to nursery. We've now got a waiting list for September and money in the bank. One of the things we did was to ask parents to pay a half termly 'pre-school fund' of £1 to cover the cost of the snacks, no-one objected(at least out loud!) We did lots of sponsored events, and asked our local shops and businesses for contributions. Co-op, Sainsbury's, the local estate agent, chemist, bakery and gym all gave something for raffles. The estate agent still does our photocopying for free. Unfortunatly our local primary school looks set to build a nursery, I cant blame them but it mght be that in 1-2 years we will close anyway. Hope you can find a way out of your predicament. Good luck

[Guest]

Thanks for your suggestions rea,

 

We already charge 10p per session attended for snacks as well as charging for the 1/2 hour the vouchers do not cover, they pay for 2 1/2 hours we open for 3. We have had a sponsored search at pre-school and the staff are doing a sponsored walk,8 miles, to raise money to tide us over. D-Day is the middle of June, so keep fingers crossed for us.

 

Gizzy

[hali]

Good luck Gizzy will be thinking of you...

[Guest]

D-Day has been brought forward to the 21st May. PLA and committee have had a chat and things don't look good. Even if, and its a big if the committee want to keep us going next year we will have to find a new committee who are prepared to take us on.

Will let you know how it goes. Keep you fingers crossed for me please.

[hali]

fingers and toes crossed Gizzy

[Beau]

Just a week to go then. Good luck!

[Sue R]

Yes, very good luck!!!

 

Sue

[Guest]

Good Luck Gizzy, I have all things crossed I'll think positive thoughts for you!

[Guest]

All the very best of luck, thinking of you.

[Steve]

Beams Gizzy!

[Rea]

Good luck Gizzy. A new committee is what made the difference to us. But do you have to have a committee? We are with the PLA and I'm sure I read in U5C that you can be part of them and be a business. Could be wrong I've got a terrible memory but I'd check it out with them, then speak to your staff and bank manager!

[Guest]

No you are right rea. We have discussed beconing a business but the staff don't have the expereince to run a business, or come to that any money. Our trouble is as things stand we won't make a profit until the summer term in 2005, unless there is a dramatic increase in numbers of children that is. We used to have a couple of thousands to fall back on but that went last year. Anyway I will know by Next Friday how things stand.

 

Thanks for all those crossed fingers.

 

Gizzy

[Guest]

Hi everyone well we are down but not out!

 

The committee was unable to come to a decision and vote last night.

 

After the treasurer gave a statement of our finances we had a discussion on what to do. Our treasurer gave the impression that she would like to close us so did another member of the committee. Our discussions were calm and the committee were surprised when the staff gave them a letter to show that £2000 had been raised in less than a week to support us as well as getting 3 more children to start with us is September.

 

Part of the trouble is that the 3 main committee members are finacially liable if we go into the red.

 

The staff had prepared a statement on how we felt about the situation and this I read out. The treasure found this amusing and laughed and commented in parts, when the chair reprimanded her she resigned as of then.

 

The committee were unable to vote on whether to close us. We are now looking for a new treasurer any volunteers out there!!!!!

 

Thanks for all your comments and support.

 

Gizzy