Pay?

[Guest]

Just a quick question for all of those whom work in pre-school and claim nursery education grant. What sort of pay are you on? I find myself doing teaching, planning and taking more and more work home every week to keep up with the demands of Ofsted. I am basically doing the same job as my sons nursery teacher (lots more hours though and no 13 weeks paid!) I am basically on less than a third of what she is on. Obviously I know and understand she is a qualified teacher and so should be paid more - but is their any long term government strategy which will change this. Am seriously considering packing it all in at moment - sorry about the rant! xx

[Guest]

Just a quick question for all of those whom work in pre-school and claim nursery education grant. What sort of pay are you on? I find myself doing teaching, planning and taking more and more work home every week to keep up with the demands of Ofsted. I am basically doing the same job as my sons nursery teacher (lots more hours though and no 13 weeks paid!) I am basically on less than a third of what she is on. Obviously I know and understand she is a qualified teacher and so should be paid more - but is their any long term government strategy which will change this. Am seriously considering packing it all in at moment - sorry about the rant! xx

 

Our "leader" earns around £17000 per year. We have assistants on £6 per hour and myself who deals with managing the setting at around £12k, part time.

 

It seems though that due to the requirement for qualifications arising that there will need to be a restructure of pay also, down the line. How this will work in the PVI I don't know.

 

http://www.daycaretrust.org.uk/mod/fileman...yond_caring.pdf

[Guest toddleo]

A miserable £7.50 an hour for TONS of work, and no extra for all the out of hours I do...BUT....It is a convenient job which fits in with my children and I am home by 1pm every day....that is a real bonus!

[Helen]

My staff earn between £6 and £8.25 per hour, and I pay them to attend a weekly staff meeting of two hours where we do all the planning and record keeping. They each have an area of responsibility (circle time, creative art, role-play, maths) and I pay them £500 a year to do anything they need to do, eg an overview of planning for the year, ordering resources, staying 20 minutes later to complete a display, etc. I leave it to them to manage their time, and to choose what they need to do.

Me? I run the place, with all that that involves, and I earn around £9000.

[alis2son]

I feel a little less sorry for myself now, i know we dont do it for the pay, but thats not a lot for yourself!

 

What do the staff have to do to earn £8? and can i come and work with you? I do all my professional development in my own time, most of the paperwork so i can be hands on with the children when they want me to be and manage the setting as well, and im not on that much!

Edited July 13, 2007 by alis2son

[Guest]

Thank you for your replies its good to know I am not the only one stressing out with all the work. We are due an Ofsted any day which adds to my worries and I can guarantee they will pick at all my hard work! x

[Inge]

we get between 8.10 per hour and 5.55 depending on qualification and reponsibility of the role. But as said only for hours worked hence not for long holidays etc, only the 4 weeks a year entitlement. so get 42 weeks pay a year leaving 10 weeks unpaid.

 

I get 6 hours a week non contact time pay for admin plus occasional extra hours if needed for paperwork.

 

yes a lot less pay for what is becoming a more complex job which includes both the care of the children (to do the policies etc etc ) as well as the education side

 

Inge

[tess]

Hi

Really interesting subject - we pay £5.35 for unqualified - £5.50 nvq 2 - Deputy £6.40 & I earn £7.40. we get paid for meetings, training and receive 42 weeks money a year.

 

All my planning is done in my own time and I have just had to ask for the end of year reports to be written at home as we are running to ratio - lots of grumbles. (it really wasn't worth asking I wish I'd done them)

 

I am having a nightmare about to lose two staff - to teaching assistant roles, because we can't matach those salaries. have been intouch with my development worker and she has said I will struggle to replace my two staff as there are not many around with qualifications.

 

Sorry bit fed up today - at the thought of losing my team again, because of pay there is so much competition not sure how we can compete.

[luluj]

As a Reception Teacher I am horrified at these rates of pay for all the work that you good people do. If you need a flag raiser for your cause count me in! And thanks for all you do. I certainly appreciate it and you desrve a huge increase! luluj

[Inge]

just lost a mamber of staff too.. teaching assistant post same as tess, and we pay a better rate than most....

 

its the lack of pay over the holidays and closure which causes lots of the problem..most understand the part time wage for what is essentially part time hours...(we aim to do paperwork at work if we can and get a bit for doing it at home...) but the weeks with no income really makes it hard.. we tried to work out the wage for a year and give it as equal payments but found the amount each month was reduced by so much that it did not help anyone.

 

Inge

[Rea]

Luluj, I'd like to thank you for your horror. A parent once suggested to me during a conversation that I must be on about £18,000 a year. I nearly choked. Its only since going supply that I've ever earned enough to pay tax and NI some weeks.

 

Bluemandie, as a playleader I was on £5.50 an hour that was 2 years ago, one of the reasons I left was because of the pay in comparison to the amount of work and at such a level. Ofsted inpsect on our 'teaching', but I wasnt a teacher so it was personal when my teaching was questioned.

Like most of us I did it for the love of it. I still do.

[Guest]

Excuse me while I rant again. Why are the governement shorring up the wages for LEA, Childrens Centres and Sure Start while we in the private sector providing in my opinion a brilliant start in life paid for only from our parents fees and NEG at the outstanding rate of 3.00 per hour. Why pay some more just because they work in a CC and yet we often are more qualified and work longer . This has not been the first time I go off on a subject but as more and more start the degree course why dont the government pay us what we are worth????

[Rea]

The cynic in me says that, while the government says they value all of us and wants everyone to work together, what they really mean is, "if we pay our people more the others will close then we can be the best and birth to five will really be in government hands".

 

On the other hand, do we want the government paying us and thereby having even more influence over us? I'd say not. I've worked in a variety of places, the govenment, either local or national settings are not as good as they might think. And while the idea behind CC's is lovely, in practice I think it just fragments communities, by making some settings close, or merge to be run by someone else. Homogenised is what we'll be.

 

Really got my cynical head on tonight.

[Guest]

Thank you for the link Titian, it just goes to show that pay is becoming a crucial issue that, I think, the government cannot ignore for much longer.

As the owner of my preschool I am similar to Helen, I earn, if I'm lucky about the same, last year I even got a tax rebate ( as self employed) because my earnings were so low.

I, like many others didn't start out in this profession for the money, I started because my son was at preschool, single parent and needed to 'get out the house'. My vocation built from there. When I was employed within a preschool the low pay didn't bother me, it was the job satisfaction that was my motivation. It wasn't a 'career' to me then. Even when I opened my own preschool it was so that I could deliver 'my ethos' etc, but now after 7 years of having my own business and all that that entails, including continuous staff turnover for reasons as have already been mentioned, and two years actually running at a loss, my vocation has left me in overdraft land.

 

I still have a real sense of pride in my achievements, when I see the children and their families enjoying their time with us and the respect and value I get from the parents, to me it is still worth it. However, I am feeling like others that until government / society puts true worth on childrens early life experiences then we will always be seen as 'part time' carers rather than the true professional teachers ( in the sense of 'educators') that we are. NEG, sustainability, Every child matters, accountability, emphasis on academic qualifications/degrees, etc has bought 'childhood' to the fore and to the public interest, however, we will always be lower paid until society values PVI as equals to the maintained ( government - 'real' ) school settings.

 

Parents still don't understand that our work in preschool is the beginning of the same curriculum that schools offer, that the foundation stage is the 'foundations of' the National curriculum. We are still percieved by our 'service users' as 'mums ( not sure how they percieve the men who work in PVI settings?!) working with children, doing a job rather than a profession. To them School is free, and compulsory, we are not, we are not free and not compulsory, this alone sends out different messages to society. Thus different value.

 

Competition, level playing fields are not fair in terms of maintained versus PVI, this is given lip service by government and is not being addressed. I have thought for a while what would happen if all the PVI setting went on strike for one week, would we missed and therefore valued then???

 

Ironically I was contacted by the Inland Revenue last week, as an employer they arranged to visit me to ensure I am paying my staff minimum wage, this is normal procedure appenrently. I arranged staff cover, at my cost ( out of my pocket), only for them to cancel the meeting. I Pay deputy £6:50 hr, Qualified £6 and unqualified £5.85, all above minimum wage. What I wanted to show them was that as self employed but answerable to the government re: NEG requirements that I am paid BELOW minimum wage, can't wait for the rescheduled meeting, which by the way will be during MY summer holiday.

I'm fortunate that my husband can support my 'passion' financially but even he is feeling the pinch now, lets hope thereis serious government investment, in the very near future for us all to be paid a living wage.

 

 

oops, got on my soapbox again.

 

great topic, lets not get too disheartened though, there are lots of 'hidden' benefits that are priceless that we can't get from other careers.

 

from my latest parent survey I got a lovely comment that is just priceless; When asked "would you recommend us to other parents and why"

 

" The setting is just as it should be where the children are free to select from a very large selection of activities at their leisure. My daughter loves the little outings that she is taking on..........It has a nice feel of a traditional playschool with modern day alternatives such as snack bar and a curriculum that's followed to a very high standard"

 

Peggy

[Guest]

just wanted to add, I think Teachers in maintained schools earn every penny they get, as Rea says, government as employers is NOT an easy task.

 

Peggy

[HappyMaz]

I am very fortunate that in the main our parents value what we do with and for their children highly. They are continually surprised at what we are able to do and the level of commitment of the staff team on the little they are earning. They respect our professionalism, and since ours is a private group with every member of staff living outside the village we serve I don't think we are perceived as a group of mums 'playing with our children'.

 

Our pay goes from £6 for an unqualified member of staff to £7.50 for a deputy supervisor and I probably earn about £1.75 an hour as owner. Actually if I ever did the calculation I would probably cry. I'm certainly earning less than I did as Supervisor. I'm only in my first year of ownership, so I'm still finding my feet financially. I will need to look at the pay structure again to look at the difference betwen Level 2 and Level 3 staff.

 

On a wider note, I think using pay to reward staff for undertaking training and gaining extra qualifications is a pretty blunt instrument. As one member of staff said "for another 50p an hour I think I'll stay at a level 2!". And this from a committed, valued member of staff who works far above her qualification!

 

Pay is always something of a minefield, isn't it? As has been commented upon before, the fact that parents pay less to the people who educate their children than they do to get their ironing done says it all really!

 

Maz

[Helen]

This is such an interesting topic, and it's great that everyone has been really open about wages.

 

Alis2son, the £8.25 ph is for my deputy (who is really the nursery supervisor, and whom I leave in charge when I'm up in the office/out of the building, etc) We effectively have a job share.

 

Next time I meet up with that man from the Treasury, I'm going to point him in the direction of this topic

[HappyMaz]

This is such an interesting topic, and it's great that everyone has been really open about wages.

 

Alis2son, the £8.25 ph is for my deputy (who is really the nursery supervisor, and whom I leave in charge when I'm up in the office/out of the building, etc) We effectively have a job share.

 

Next time I meet up with that man from the Treasury, I'm going to point him in the direction of this topic

Well now that the head honcho from the treasury's more intimate understanding of families and the issues they face have now been taken into the heart of Number 10 we might see some movement on funding, etc.

 

But then again...

 

Maz

[alis2son]

At My last check on what my pay was i was on £7.40ish i think and I am one of 2 nursery supervisors who run one site both on same rate, both work full time alternate shifts. I only wish i was on £8.25 an hour. We just cant afford any more. We are about to put our fees up and hope the extended school projects dont get the better of us. (I get £9 for assessing. Paid by the LEA. )

[Guest]

Hi All,

 

Interesting to hear all these rates of pay. I am on £8.16. All my staff are qulaifies either NVQ2 or 3 and their wage varies from £6.20-£7.80.

I had a similar mum who though I must be on £15-20,000 until she became my Chairperson and realised for her 2eves and 1 day workin at tesco she earned more then me.

I have just finished my first year foundation degree and have had to tell the pre school that I will be leaving next July.

One reason is that I need a less stressful position for my 3rd yr BA and the other is realistically the pre school won't be able to up my wages much more.

I know that sounds selfish but one of the reasons I am trying to get a degree is to get a higher wage and unfortunately that isn't in pre school.

However went for a job as a teaching assistant in a foundation stage class in a lower school and didn't even get an interview.

 

Our pay is pooooo. But we all still do it, is it our fault we love kids and want to try and provide them with the best start.

 

Net x

[HappyMaz]

However went for a job as a teaching assistant in a foundation stage class in a lower school and didn't even get an interview.

Do you think that potential employers might think the level of qualifications/learning you have achieved in doing the Foundation Degree would make you over qualified to be a teaching assistant? They might think you are on the path to gaining a teaching qualification and they might need to replace you sooner rather than later.

 

A little shortsighted on their part, if this is true though - I'd be biting your hand off to make the most of your experience and knowledge!

 

Good luck

Maz

[Guest]

It could also be possible that the teaching assistant pay that you would be on is less than you are on now or would commad with your FD, combined with your level of qualifications that could assume that you were too senior for the job. Although personally I would have left that decision up to you.

[Marion]

I may be wrong but in maintained settings (schools certainly in my area) the FD isn't viewed highly. My Nursery Nurse is the only member of support staff with a FD and is paid considerably less than other members of staff. She feels (rightly so) that she "wasted" two years hard work gaining this qualification which hasn't even resulted in an interview for positions in schools she has applied for. She says the only people who seem interested in employing anyone with a FD in our area are Sure Start settings but she doesn't want to work the irregular hours.

[Annie-pops]

Hi all. Just adding my grumbles. You read a lot in the press about

childcare being 'expensive'. However, what they maybe don't realise is that it

would be even more expensive if those working in Early Years were paid at a level which recognises qualifications, experience, and hours of effort put in. We do, in effect subsidise the system by way of working for low wages and putting in hours of own time. I work in a small local playgroup and some weeks I work more unpaid hours than paid. I know that when we chat to parents or share children's files with them, they are always surprised at the level of input and skill required.