30 replies to this topic

[apple]

Hi there
I'm a reception practitioner and also a profile moderator. On my moderation visits I have discovered that practitioners (including myself!) are finding the scale points related to culture and beliefs (SD Point 7 &, ED Point 6) generallly harder to make judgements on.
I was wondering if anyone out there is finding the same and more importantly how they are tackling the issue

The FSP handbook is a good first port of call with real-life examples of these scale points being met, but I thought if other people were feeling the same then maybe we could get some discussion going on how to approach these points particulaly for next year.

Many of us through topic work are doing great things at times like Divali, Christmas, Chinese New Year etc, but what we need is to be providing our children with an enriched curriculum throughout the year in order for children to begin to have a developing respect and understanding for...
Would love to hear anyones thoughts on this :)
liza

[Jackie A.]

My Nursery Class colleagues and I do find it very difficult to make judgements on these particular aspects of PSED. Our Nursery has children from many different cultures and so we have a wealth of experiences through the children's own lives. However it is one thing giving the children the experiences, it's another thing making that judgement on individual children whether they do have " a developing respect for culture and beliefs of other people and of themselves" or that "people have different needs, views, cultures and beliefs", etc. This is definitely the area that we spend most time deliberating over and wondering what evidence is enough to give that point to the child.

We do feel that our children are very unaware of differences amongst themselves as they play and socialise with other children from many different cultures. They often do not notice differences in skin colour, etc. They are all just children playing happily together.

[Sue R]

Hi,
I'm not actively involved in the profiles, but, like you, find difficulty in reports and ROAs for the chn in my DN in these aspects.

It seems a bit sad, when you remark, Jackie, that your chn don't notice differences and play together happily that we should have to tie ourselves up in knots like this - although I appreciate we have to make some judgments regarding progress towards the ELGs.

Sorry, nothing really useful, just a comment!

Sue :D

[Susan]

HI
I agree that these points are the most difficult to assess. And I use that word in the broadest sense.
I work in a large multicultural school and I would hope from the input in festivals and celebrations that the children have that they are beginning to develop awareness but the children overwhelming accept one another and as Jackie says do not really notice diferences and certainly don't make comments of the nature described in the Profile Handbook! Drawings are almost always the first colour that comes to hand or the favourite of the moment! I had a range of skin tone pencils that I have tried in vain to keep separated from the others but I've never seen one selected for a specific purpose such as representing themselves in that way!
Children are ready to claim of ownership to any festival that comes along, rarely discriminating in any way.
Last year I refused to "score" any of those points as although I felt the range of activities and experiences that we had offered should have allowed a developing awareness I felt my children were still far too egocentric to score with any certainty- it had to be an all or nothing and we plumped for nothing!
This year my feeling is much the same. I am the trained moderator in my school but unfortunately due to my ill health have not been there to do so. Nor have I visted other settings in this capacity, but I did not score on the profiles that I completed for the spring term.

Moving to the other extreme if a child makes a comment as to the differences between themselves we have to report it and report it as a possible racial incident to the LEA detailing how it has been dealt with.
The African Caribean dinner lady was horrified and upset when a child observed that 'she had black skin didn't she?'
So altogether a tricky one!

[Dianne]

Yeah, stuck out here in Kent it's quite a hard one to assess - we do our best but a lot of the children only develop limited awareness. Last year I just didn't fill it in for anyone, I think - maybe 1 or 2 this year who have had different experiences at home. It's a real toughie, & I am trying to address the issues in class, but it's not that easy, is it!!!

Dianne xxx

[Gater]

I felt the exact same way about the cultural aspect. I agree with the egocentric comment and feel that it refers to other stepping stones where it suggests that the children take into account the oppinions and views of others. I discussed this with my FS and she is as stumped as I am but felt that the children do display respect for different cultures by their respecting us the teachers. I work in a classroom with 100% Asian children and she feels that by them respecting us they are respecting another culture. Was not too sure as to that being a true reason for ticking it off, but this is how she is judging her class, so I had to follow suit. There are also other areas where they were cloudy and the FS profile guidance does not offer true examples of the children in my school - if I went by their examples my children would not score very high. As much as I am very fond of the document to send home, I am having more stress over this document at the moment and do not really feel that it shows a true profile of the children's achievements. Any comments?

D xxx

[JacquieL]

I have had exactly the same problem in assessing on these scales and this has proved difficult on all my moderation visits. Our EY Advisor says use a best fit model, but I can't say I am really comforatble with that. In my own class the children who can score are the children from ethnic minority groups who comment on the cultural differences and enjoy celebrations with their white British classmates.
It seems to me to be a very sophisticated concept to understand and respect another's culture etc. I wonder how many of our older children 'really' meet that judgement? I could understand a statement that says experiencing and enjoying, but not one that expects understanding. Some of these profile statements are very woolly, especially for people who are telling me that their children are scoring a 9.

[Dianne]

I have no 'exceptional' children in any of the profile areas this year (of course, they're all exceptional in their own ways!), & am quite determined that no-one is getting a nine - it puts a lot of pressure on Y1 I think. I have just reviewed the class for Dispositions & Attitudes, and was pleasantly surprised at how many had the other 8 though (but point 9's very very hard to give!) :D

Dianne xxx

[mundia]

I agree with you Dianne about the '9's. I think they could really do with explaining further with more concrete examples. And I do think they have to be pretty excpetional to achieve the 9s in most areas- I think the figures I read last year were 2% of children were expected to get a 9 in one or more area of learning. It does as you say, put a lot of pressure on year 1 and 2 to get the 'value added' then.

[Lorna]

I also find it difficult with some of the points.... The PSED one about understanding needs and culture... this year I have found easier as I have a French boy in my class and the children all express how he speaks differently to us. I also have 4 children who intergrate into my class every wednesday afternoon, from a special school and thay have learnt about how people are different and how to communicated using gesture rather than speach..... I am hoping that with that and them supporting a couple of children who find it hard to behave... eg. holdong the childs hand and leading him in a line or to an activity that is enough information to say thay have some understanding.

L

[leo]

I find this a tricky one as well because i find that the chidlren take each other at face value and do not discriminate between each other. Surely that is the best sort of accecptance. My chidlren see me as their teacher who is brown-(not black) becuse we have examined our skin tones and discovered that black and brown are not the same
We speak baout people form different cultures in UK and in the world but it is a tricky ocncept in small village schools when chidlren and adults have no contact with other cultures. So in that respect my chidlren are very lucky to have a Nursery teacher who can introudce them to a different culture

But the problem I have is that I am very hesitant to celebrate Diwali in case parents see it as "being different"or that I am foisting my religion on the children.

Which is funny becuse we celebrate Chinese new year , jewish festivals when we can and ofcourse christmas and easter.

So it must be my mental block

[Susan]

Leo,
I can understand your reticence, everyones interpretation of their faith is a personal thing. I used to be uncomfortable teaching RE as a Christian to predominantly Christian children, in case my interpretation was different to their parents.

In the multicultural setting that I now work I actually find it easier. I talk to the children about what happens in my house and encourage them to tell me what happens in theirs, at the appropriate times.
I am sure your children would be fascinated and accepting if you talked about Diwali in a similar vein. We also have staff from a wide range of backgrounds who share with the children their experiences, we show special clothes and make simple foodstuffs.
I'm sure noone could object to that.

I recently went on a RE for Foundation Stage afternoon and that was exactly what was being suggested, along with Festival type RE "storysacs".
So you would only be delivering the curriculum not seeking converts!

Good luck.

[leo]

Thanks Susan
that was reassuring.
Perhaps I could make it a personal celebratory thing

[mundia]

good idea Leo.

We always have a lovely time at Diwali, even though most of our children are Moslem. As you say, the children take it all on board, you wouldnt be teaching anything outside of the curriculum so I cant see that your parents could complain.

[AOB]

Glad I'm not alone finding this area tricky. I decided to try doing my register in other languages and encouraging a response in that language. For French I say Bonjour and their name and hope for Bonjour Madame in return, we also do a sung one in French 'Est-ce que (name) et la' and they reply je suis la (now when someone is absent the children will usually respond appropriately with il n'est pas la or elle n'est pas la and now understand il est en vacances or il est malade. For Spanish we just say Hola and the child's name, they respond hola (Senora proved rather difficult and we gave up!) I have a Chinese boy in class who taught us 'Jo san' which I think means good morning and Ni Hao (how are you - I think?) and there is also a half Dutch boy who has taught us Ben yi (y followed by I sound) hier (Are you here?) they respond ja (yes) or ney (sounds like neigh) if someone is absent. Initially they all thought ney was very funny may be the link with the horse noise. Now they have all got used to it and seem to respect it as something special for Matthew. I wonder if all that warrants a score. What I've been suprised at is how even reluctant speakers and those with speech disorders have all picked up really good accents and have no fear of speaking aloud in the foreign languages. We have also done a bit of singing in other languages which they have all enjoyed.

Sorry to ramble on and for no idea of how to spell words in Dutch!

Angela