Can A School Claim The Neg Funding?

[Guest Praesus Infelix]

Hi,

 

Maybe a dumb question but is there any reason why the main school/head/govenors can't take over the preschool and claim the funding?

 

If private Nurseries can claim the grant surely a school can do so? Or is it to do with the way schools are funded? Confused....

[Guest]

Firstly the pre-school will probably be a registered charity, so the school can't just take it over. The pre-school would hev to be wound up its assets would have to go to another charity or the PSLA probably if they have one of the standard consitutions. The school could of course, apply to have a nursery, and so would of course get funding that way.

You are also correct that funding is currently done differently for maintained schools than PVIs claiing the NEG.

[Guest]

If you are charity run then I would suggest talk to charity commision re winding down, or if member of pla or Ndna talk to them, also talk to the Local Authority early years dept business advisor.

 

Does this mean you are retiring? is it difficult and sad circumstances or are you moving on to greener fields?

 

Have you had any discussions with the school yet?

 

ooh questions, questions, ignore me if you think I'm being too nosy.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Oops posted twice - sorry.

[Beau]

It's okay! I've deleted your second one.

[Guest Wolfie]

Currently, maintained nurseries get MORE per child than PVIs - but there's a consultation document out at the moment about proposals to make the funding per child more equal across the different sectors; the PVIs will get more and the maintained sector will get less. Unsurprisingly, PVIs are welcoming this proposal but the maintained nurseries are not so happy! I mention this because it might affect the school's willingness to take on the pre-school?

[Guest Praesus Infelix]

In answer to your questions:

 

Yes, I have resigned and I fear that the rest of the committee will follow me. It was very unpleasant circumstances and frankly I've had enough of this crap from the supervisor. You're all so lovely I wish one of you ran it.

 

The school were keen to take it over but someone at the psla bollocksed it up for us and I'd like to get to the bottom of the whole funding issue since I think this what finished it.

 

I know about the charity implications but I fear that the preschool has had it. It would be better to start again in a different format.

 

The school already run a nursery class and have the opportunity to create a superb foundation stage unit. But the head needs to manage all the staff (imho) to make it work properly - however, that requires a head who is prepared to commit a lot of unpaid time to resolving the conflicts. I know in an ideal world everybody would be working towards the same aim and it shouldn't be necessary to close a successful preschool but the whole thing is so awful no-one wants to run it. Committee after committee have tried and failed over the past 6 years. I could cry.

Edited April 27, 2007 by Praesus Infelix

[Guest]

So sorry you feel so bad, unfortunately committees and supervisors so often clash, for whatever reasons which can be so complex. The complexity is understandable when committee have the legal responsibilities and the supervisors have the childcare/education pressures ad day to day responsibilities. I think it all boils down to percieved ownership of the setting. As I said a complex business/charity set-up that it need both sides to be able to work together or what has happened to you and your setting is maybe inevitable. Although you must be feeling angry, sad, undervalued and most probably emotionally and physically exhausted it is because different people within yor setting have different goals, values and beleives, have strong conflicting principles etc. The supervisor may have issues she is not being flexible about but try to understand it is only because of her beliefs and I hope not set against you in a personal manner.

 

The funding consultation is just that, a consultation, no changes have been decided or made yet, the head can find out about funding and support for setting up a foundation unit, he/she doesn't need to wait for the preschool to dissolve first, does he/she...?

 

Some preschools can continue for a short period without a committee, or with a limited committee membership, but only for a short period. If you have complaints / queries about how your PLA representative/advisor has dealt with charity issues then speak to the charity commission and/or PLA head office, including the PLA legal department.

 

Wishing you a happier future and hope that something good can come out of what is now a difficult situation for everyone.

 

Peggy

[Rea]

Have you approached the school governors?

I looked into something similar a while back for my old playgroup. I cant remember many details but I think the gov's can take it over.

I deleted all my old emails and documents only 3 days ago. Sods law that they might have come in handy now

Sorry things are going wrong, it's my one fear that the playgroup I worked at and my children went to will fold now that the school are to have a nursery.

Nurseries are very good but in my honest opinion, you cant beat a playgroup.

[Rea]

I've found a booklet I got from the Dfes, Planning and funding extended schools: a guide for schools, local authorities and their partner organisations.

 

School governing bodies have powers to provide any facilities or services that further any charitable purpose for pupils, their families and for people who live and work in the local community. This includes childcare.

 

Any profits made by a school from providing facilities or services must be reinvested in the school or in the service.

 

If the school took children under 3 yrs they would have to register with ofsted, but if they only took 3 and over it can be registered as part of the school (if on the school site)

Any childcare that isnt available to the schools own pupils would have to register.

 

The PSLA, should be able to help the pre-school set up under another committee i.e the school governors there is a pack available, but the name escapes me. At the very least your PSLA development worker should be doing something to stop the pre-school from having to close. Do you know your branch chair, I'm one, and it's something I'd fight for if I was approached. I'll see what I can find out if you like but in the meantime I'd get back onto them and find out whats stopping things.

 

Hope that helps a bit

[Sue R]

In my (meagre) understanding, the NEG is only available once for each child. If that child attends any kind of Maintained setting, then that setting gets the whole slice of the funding that belongs to that child. Any other settings can have their share, if there is more than one involved, up to the current maximum time provided for, provided there are no maintained settings in the equation.

 

Have I 1) Made sense,

2) Got it right?

 

Sue

[Guest Wolfie]

Yes, I think you're right Sue but I've heard someone say that this new consultation document about funding suggests that the present system, where maintained settings attract all the funding if a child attends more than one setting, should perhaps be altered so that funding is split between the two providers, whichever sector they are in.

[Sue R]

If that's the case, Wolfie, then it's long overdue!

 

Sue

[Guest Wolfie]

Pretty sure I'm right - the nursery heads from the maintained sector where I work are up in arms!!

[Sue R]

I can imagine they would be, as they've had all that money from the very beginning. It will mess up their financial planning, but, like I say, it's long overdue and only fair!

 

Sue

[Guest Wolfie]

Apart from the financial aspect, it'll also give them an insight into how much more complicated the planning becomes when the attendance patterns of the children are all different!

[Sue R]

Another headache! Well, I sympathise, but we're used to it now.

[Guest]

We have questioned the county's financial advisor about funding. We are a maintained nursery and we have plasc (pupil count) in January and the year's funding is based on this number. However we had 52 part time children in January and because we have intakes each term we now have 68 part time children attending but we still only get funding for 52. We are waiting for a response as to whether we can claim any funding for these children who have started nursery after Easter (the term after their 3rd birthday) as any other setting would get this.

Sue

[Inge]

We always lose so mamy children that funding in Sept /Dec much lower than other months. In sept how many will you have? and funding for how many? This could offset the current deficit, as they seem to work Jan to Jan.. if you have less than 52 will you be expected to return the funding?

 

Sorry sore point having taken children with NO funding for years until now (as we are lucky and now have flexible funding) In Sept we always run at a loss due to lower numbers and rely on summer term to offset this.

 

Luckily worked until now.. dread the year it doesn't

 

Inge

[Guest]

I'm like you Inge, summer income to support autumn deficit ( expenditure over income ).

 

Someone else could do the sums but I've always thought that instead of calculating funding by attendence numbers why don't the powers that be just fund a set amount X the number of children the setting ( PVI & Maintained) is registered for X the number of days it is open in the year. The basic amount would have to be less than the current level, and seen as a subsidy per place rather than a grant per child, but I think this would;

1/ enable settings to know exactly how much income they would receive every year, thus helping with budgeting

2/ reduce all the wasted admin hours on calculating the attendence levels

3/ ensure a truly level playing field

 

Yes some settings will extend their hours and opening days but this will be naturally decided by local demand. The registration requirements of number of places (and age ratio's) we can be registered for takes into account space requirements so is regulated across all settings. So we won't get classes of 30 pupils.

 

well I can dream, it's never going to happen this way.

 

Peggy