Time Off In Lieu Of Pay For Training

[Deb]

Hi A liitle while ago staff raised the issue of being paid for attending training courses, particularly when it would mean giving up a session's pay. We have never been paid for attending training, except for first aid, with occasional reimbursement of expenses. One colleague suggested that part of the NEG is supposed to be spent on training staff.

 

The new committee agreed that it would be desirable to set up a training pot but at that time as money was tight, they proposed that staff took a session off in lieu of pay. We have extra staff one day. This was agreed by staff.

 

Now they are not so sure and are even questioning whether it is legal to do this. Does anybody else do this?

 

I wear two hats, one as deputy the other as paid administrator, so am between a rock and hard place. Always keen to value what we do but on the other hand try to juggle the budget. Our forecast for this year is not as bad as I had first thought but the pot is definitely decreasing.

 

I realize this is a committee problem but wanted to know what others do.

[Guest]

In my present job, we are not paid for training at all! It makes no difference if the training day is on a session worked or not. It has been brought up before by both staff and committee but basically there is no money in the pot to pay....hence the decrease in staff taking up training!!! I will be watching this post to see what others say.

 

In my new job (not yet started) they pay staff for all training!

 

Jenni x

[Guest]

In our county training is an NEG requirement set at four days a year. It therefore seems logical that i has to be paid for and budgeted for as with any other expense.

[Guest]

My last nursery have time off in lieu for courses/training done outside of work hours. It was hard to give the time back tho seeing as the staffing ratios were at the bare minimum anyway.

[Inge]

Until recently we too had no pay for training, but courses were paid for if any fee applied.

recently with more and more courses being necessary to keep the setting open (first aid, fire awareness, etc) the committee had decided that we should get paid something for our time, this is not always the amount due for full number of hours but it is what we can afford.

 

Our staff have asked for this all to be paid together in August, a month with little or no wages, and because of this we can assess what is left in the budget for year and amount can be increased if we have sufficient funds. This is very helpful when funds are at a low, we have been working only just in budget this year until now but this term we have achieved 100% occupancy with a waiting list so at the this term we will be able to assess funds and staff will be paid a suitable amount for training attended. They all know that they will get paid if there is money in the pot at end of year, but if pot is low they will only get a token payment. this is one of the problems with a fluctuating occupancy, we never really know how much is coming in each term, and with it changing mid term now makes a budget for anything almost impossible.

 

we have recently had several courses which give us money for supply staff or to pay staff attending, last one was £50.00 for a days training. this is always passed onto the staff attending in full.

 

If you can I dont see why time off instead is a problem, so long as ratios are met etc.

 

Most of my staff already work 2 jobs so finding time to do training is a problem too, especially if they ahve to take time off to do it.

 

Inge

[hali]

until recently my satff havnt been paid for training either, they are asked to try to swap sessions but if not possible do now get paid.....

[Deb]

Hi everybody

 

Thanks for your replies confirming the reality of the situation.

 

Like you Inge, we are full 4 out of 5 sessions at the moment which is much better than we had envisaged at the beginning of the school year but we are still expecting to make an operating loss this year, albeit smaller than expected. Luckily we have some reserves and September is looking better than last year.

 

Chill, after reading your post which was what my colleague had also said, I phoned our local funding administrator (who I am on first name terms with now since taking over our setting's administration). She said that if there is any money left from the NEG, then training is one of the items it can be spent on to help deliver nursery education but (in Dorset at least) there is no requirment to spend a set amount on training. She also said that the reality is that, there is nothing left after wages, electricity, rent, equipment etc etc. She also said we couldn't spend it on a 'training' trip in Barbados, which I thought was most unreasonable! I'll get there one day! Yet again, it seems the implementation of the NEG differs from area to area.

 

We have been given a bursary of £150 to fund SEN training, which will help a little.

 

Look forward to hearing how others cope.

[Guest]

I tried to look up the law re pay for training, it appears, but don't quote me that payment of wages whilst employees attend training is only required of young people aged 16-17.

See attached pdf which I got from the dti ( dept trade and industry ) look at pages 52/53.

 

Good practice is to offer training opportunities, there needs to be a balance between training costs and viability so maybe the committee need to think about including training costs into fees costs.

 

I always thought that if the employers required staff to undertake training then this should be included in their pay, if however it was not required by the employer then the employee undertakes the training at their own expense. A training policy could clarify this for all employees. differentiating between qualification courses and short workshop / good practice type training.

 

Good luck, let us know what you come up with.

 

Peggy

eMPLOYMENT_LAW.pdf

[Guest]

forgot to mention, the Transformation Fund is supportive of training costs, various criteria too complex to go into here but maybe committee could find out more from the early years training dept.

 

Peggy

[Deb]

Thanks Peggy, very useful document which I have saved for future reference.

 

Didn't think about looking at our training policy! Sometimes, we cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

Of course, our training policy is suitably vague

the pre-school aims to financially help and support all staff access training whenever possible

'

 

It needs updating and clarifying as there are so many more demands on staff.

[Guest]

Hi

 

I pay staff for training I have to say depending on what we do depends how what they get paid. Most staff have one session off per week so we try to swap about so it is not necessary but if they do have to go out then I do pay as my staff members say it is not really fair for them to miss out on a sessions pay because they have to do training. Which i can quite see because I wouldn't want to miss out on pay either so after all that waffle yes we do pay them

 

Deb

[whippersnappers]

I pay our staff for all time they spend on training courses, and where possible they are encouraged to attend 3 training courses a year. In Birmingham where i am based allot of the training courses are free and staff cover costs can be requested, so we don't loose any revenue. We do however get them to sign an agreement before signing up to attend courses as there is a £50 fee to pay if they don't turn up, and they will have to pay this.

We also close for 3 days each year for whole staff group on site training. Staff are also paid for this.

If you don't pay staff for training what incentive does it give them to want to do it, and training is to improve the quality of care and education we provide and this can only be done through up dating our knowledge by attending such courses.