Ratios

[Guest]

Hi everyone,

 

What are your views on the 1-13 ratio for the over 3's where an EYP is present. I personally feel this is undermining the quality of provision we provide for this age group. What are your views?

 

 

Claire x

[Andreamay]

have you got all night cupcake?!!!

Not happy and i hope we never get to that but counting myself there is at least 2 others wanting to do eyp so they are all going to want a wage to match it(me included)or they are going to go elsewhere im sure ! then what?

[Running Bunny]

Personally speaking I don't like it.

I can see how 'the powers that be' have reached this decision based on the EPPE research in that quality is raised with the presence of higher qualified practitioners BUT qualifications aren't the be all and end all - particularly in early years.

 

I couldn't imagine being with the 3+ age group on a 1:13 ratio and (as I've posted in the EYFS thread) I fear that the poorer quality settings are going to use it as a cost-cutting exercise even if an EYPS is paid at a higher rate, it will be cheaper than employing 2 staff for the same number of children. This isn't even taking into account that there should be 2 members of staff present for child protection purposes... if there are two EYPS or graduate qualified staff there could be 26 children - that's frightening!

 

I have a degree but I still only have one pair of hands, eyes and ears. Unless someone is not telling us that you gain extra features when you gain the EYPS I'm not sure how the quality is going to to be raised?

[Sue R]

I thought it was a level 6, or as is understood in our area a Teacher?

 

Although EYP will be included there just that at present there are quite a lot of settings around our way with teachers already.

 

Sue

 

Sorry - no, I really do not agree!!

[belle06]

Hi

I agree with Sue I thought I had read it as been only between the hours of 8 till 4 if a person with EYPS status (Level 6) Is working with the children (have been told does not count if they are just on the premises have to be involved in activities)

[Running Bunny]

You're right - there are conditions attached:

 

Children aged three and over in any registered early years provision

Between the hours of 8 am and 4 pm, where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, Early Years

Professional Status or another suitable level 6 qualification (which is full and relevant, and defined

by CWDC) is working directly with the children, the following requirements apply:

there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children;

at least one other member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 (as defined by CWDC).

 

At any time outside the hours of 8 am and 4 pm, or between the hours of 8 am and 4 pm but

where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, Early Years Professional Status or another

suitable level 6 qualification (which is full and relevant, and defined by CWDC) is not working

directly with the children, the following requirements apply:

there must be at least one member of staff for every eight children;

at least one member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 (as defined by CWDC);

at least half of all other staff must hold a full and relevant level 2 (as defined by CWDC).

 

Taken from Appendix 2 of the Statutory Framework.

[Sue R]

Thanks RB, that's exactly what I understood - however, I'm still not happy with it!!

 

Ho hum...

 

Sue

[Guest]

Do you grow another set of arms and legs and eyes when you become an EYP or gain teacher status. even if we were all at that level in my setting you couldn't physically be able to cover everything. especially as alot of my 3yr olds are still potty training and toilets are up 4 stairs and round a corner. Kitchen is separate and can't be access from main hall.

Either that or we would all have to learn to twitch our noses like Bewitched!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I am not happy either. On the face of it I can see settings employing an EYP to work directly with the children, which will mean that two members of staff i EYP and 1 level 3 can have up to 21 children, I fail to see how having the EYP status suddenly means you are able to manage 13 children. What if your other member of staff needs to deal with sickness, or an accident etc, I feel it will compromise the care of the children and will be used by some settings as a cost cutting exercise and they will employ less staff not more.

 

Claire x

[Guest]

The women who has recently taken over running the preschool where i work has qualified teacher status and is on the short route of the EYP but i couldnt even imagine expecting her to have a 1 - 13 ratio

[Gezabel]

Sorry but may I join the 'not happy' brigade or maybe even start an 'it makes me cross brigade!!

 

My understanding of EYPS is that it is about showing/proving that you can 'lead' in an Early Years Setting. I am all for anything that raises the profile or increases the quality of provision but no status or qualification comes with extra eyes/hands!

 

I am happy to be shot down in flames if anyone feels the need but I really don't understand how any one person can give 13 children the same quality of care that they can give to 8 children, regardless of qualifications or status!

 

I really, really don't understand how the ratios vary according to the type of setting either!

[Guest]

I agree with you Geraldine the level of quality of care that we give the children has to come first i certainly will not be making my pre school teacher have 13 children i value her and the children too much and i do not want the standards we have to slip

[Sue R]

May I state the obvious here, and say that I originally regarded this as an opportunity to redress the balance so that the maintained sector could benefit from the higher ratios - thus doubly disappointed at how it's all turned out in that respect!

 

Sue

[Marion]

I find it alarming that England is 'increasing' the child to adult ratio in this 'by the back door' method while Wales is introducing a 1-8 ratio right through to the end of the reception year and a 1-15 ratio for Y1/2.

(I disagree with the 1-13 ratio (which is the current ratio for school nurseries) but it could be worse the ratio for children aged 4+ in schools is 1-30 !!!)

[Guest]

would any one want to work with such a ratio? would anything ever get finished/started/planned/reviewed? would any child be given enough time to ....go to the loo/wash their hands/have a apron put on or taken off/ enough time to be a child.... . What ever is going on?

[Guest]

More importantly how would a child be heard?

[Guest MaryEMac]

Do the powers that be ever consult and LISTEN to people at grass roots level? At the moment we run at 1:5 and we struggle to fit everything in. I am very much against the new ratios and can

t see how it will work.

 

Mary

[hali]

certainly know what you mean mary