Guest Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 We have never had a child with SEN in our gruop so far (we have been running three years) that has stayed with us longer than a few weeks (sounds bad but they were moved from their old nursery a6 weeks before they were due to start school so there wasn't much time) Any way we had a child that joined us last spring. We have always had a bit of trouble with him behaviour wise and at one point we had to ask mum to take him out for a few week as we felt he was still a little young to be in the group. We added sessions that are specifically for younger children and children who were not ready to leave their mums dads yet etc ( they are quiet sessions with only 12 or 13 children to 4 adults ) so that we can give them lots of attention. he started coming to these one day a week we then opened another like this and he came an extra one then mum wanted another session so this was in a morning session with the children who are settled. He turned three in the summer and we left him on these 3 sessions for his NEG in the autumn but mum wanted him to come more sessions so we game him 5 sessions this term hoping the extra sessions might help with routine etc. W ended up asking mum to call his health visitor last term our main reasons are that after nearly a year we had not seen any improvement in his speech - mum thinks he talks fine his behaviour although better than when he started with us is not what you would expect from a child of his age. ( at the moment at three and a half he has the same behaviour as my son who has just turned two and speech wise I can hold a conversation with my son I can barely get yes or no out of him and that is it) he is also still emptying his bowels into a nappy. We know that his behaviour is slightly improved ie he doesn't scream quite so often at the children and this is more than likely down to his speech and frustration at not being understood but mum refuses to believe there is anything wrong with his speech she says everyone at home can understand him but she speaks for him - i have witnessed her doing it. It all boiled down to this week when he has hit several children and spent the morning throwing toys and chairs. we told mum what happened and said that we wanted to get the senco team in to take a look at him and we have started keeping a log on his behaviour which we told mum she could see but she didnt want to. my real question is are we doing things right what happens if senco comes in and he is having a good day and we look like we a complaining over nothing. the whole team has real concerns for him and i want to make sure that when thy come in we are giving them the right info and good info to back up our concerns. thanks deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliamch Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 If you have real concerns then there's no harm in contacting your local senco to talk about them. I really just wanted to say that at nearly 3 1/2 my own son has only just gained bowel control, my daughters were 2. When my girls were 2 anyone could have a proper conversation with them, with my son sometimes other people struggle to understand him. His speech has come on in leaps and bounds recently as has his behaviour. As you know each child developes at their own rate but I would try and persuade mum to talk to her health visitor (sometimes they're easier to approach) about his speech; sometimes the lack of ability to communicate can be expressed by frustration and anger. Karrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 I agree - contact your area SENCO for advice and support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 contact SENco and log all the behaviour so that you have the evidence there for them to see, you may then be able to work out a pattern to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 (re : the senco be sure you have mum's permission to discuss her child with another professional first.)We have a similar situation with a 4 year old in our group,we spoke to mum and asked her to get her health visitor to do a SOGS assessment on the child.This showed him to be at about the same developmental stage as a child of 30 months. We are waiting now for a hearing test to be arranged and then speech/language therapy, but mum is very reluctant to admit there is a problem in spite of the assessment.She talks to him as if he is a baby, he's just given up his dummy and still wears nappies when she collects him from us, in spite of the fact that we have toilte trained him and he is reliably clean and dry at the group.Her use of language doesn't help him at all............an ambulance is a "neeeenaarrr", it's baa lambs and birdies, crocodiles are "snap snaps" it honestly makes me cringe and I have spoken to her about this, saying he needs to use correct terms for items, in order for him to progress.This boy is due to start school in September and he simply won't cope as things stand,his behaviour is often abysmal, he hits other children for no reason,throws himself around the room and is so stubborn it beggars belief.He cries for the least reason , eg we give 5 minutes warning of changes....say for snack time, or going outside, and he will howl his head off.He says some words incredibly clearly, eg delicious, but most of what he says is not clear at all.He holds his pencils, crayons etc in a palmer grip, and enjoys playing with cars, trucks etc, but his drawings are usually a scribbled circular effort.Mum actually squealed with delight because he drew a circle with two blobs in which he said was mummy.We are working very hard to help this child, (IEP's with small goals etc) but without the speech assessments in place, I do feel we're flying in the wind, if you see what I mean!On the day our SENCO came to see him, his beaviour was quite good, but with all the other problems and she said he's a delightful little chap, don't worry!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaryEMac Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 We also have a child who we are concerned about. We have been observing him since he started with us in September and in fact warning bells went off when he came for his introductory visit. In a 1:1 situation he can be quite focused but in group play he doesn't join in (paarallel play). He has no spatial awareness and when he is on a trike it is as if he is on his own and the other children get ridden over. when playing with the train set, the trains can only go a certain way and if a child isn't moving quickly enough he will literally climb over them. There is also quite a bit of repetitive action in his play. I filled in the referral form and myself and his key worker spoke to mum. She refused any help saying that she used to be a nursery nurse and that her sister in law is a special needs teacher and that he is okay at home and plays with other children so thre is nothing wrong with him. We had to shred the referral form as we cannot proceed without parental permission. It is frustrating because we know that he and ourselves will benefit from area senco advice. Perhaps when she visits one of our other children, I will ask her to cast an unofficial eye over this lad. In the meantime we will just continue with observations. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 The good thing is I have had permission from mum to get SENCO in and the HV has already been in and is calling me next week. the reason why I brought this up is more like the other person was saying mum does baby him he still has a milk bottle which I think is just terrible and he sucks his thumb which isn't helping with his speech his behaviour is the same as my 2 year olds he screams if he wants some thing and cries alot breaks up the toys and walks all over them. I am trying to stop all of this with my two year old but mum doesn't seem to see it as a problem and that is what worries me she walks around telling everyone he is fine. I know it must be terribly hard for a parent to hear that there might be something not quite right with their child but I have made it clear to her that we want to try and make things better and that it need to be a team effort between us the HV the senco and her too. but this is my frustration that she can't see that his beaviour is not the norm, and it is such a shame for the child because he will never progress or improve if she cant follow through with advice that she is given. I strongly believe that the child needs speech therapy and this is more than likely the route of his problem it is so sad because we were at the snack table the other day and he was trying to tell me something he was making the same noises over and over again he told me three times and I couldnt understand and I got other staff members over too and neither could they he must be soooo frustrated in not being able to communicate but unless mum sees that there is a problem what can we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 Hi Debs, Have you had any experience of Makaton signing or Signalong? When you do get in touch with you Area Senco they should be able to advise you of some training available or atleast provide you with some info. You could introduce simple signs for juice, water, milk or fruit. As staff you sign the signs aswell as saying the words. You may have heard of PECs, you may not have, but I have seen some really positive results from it. It is a Picture Exchange Communication. You introduce a small card with a picture on it i.e showing a drink. Whenever the child wants a drink he can find his PECs book get the picture and give it to you. PECs needs to be introduced to the child by showing them one card at a time and they need time to learn to exchange the card for the object that they would like. AGAIN your area SENCo adviser may be able to help. Does your SENCo team come in to support you as a setting? If they do you may be able to get them to come in to your setting in a very general way and talk about strategies generally without having to get in to the details about this one little boy. This is not ideal and does not help Mum but could be used if she abslutely refuses. PLEASE remember if she is not talking to you about her son's problem she may not be in denial. One parent of a child with SEN once said to me 'just because I'm not talking to you about my child's problems, it doesn't mean I'm talking to anyone, I just choose to talk to my friends instead'...well that was a wake up call, let me tell you. Hope this helps. Julie x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 make observations of the behaviour and record it, so you have evidence if and when you need it, to demonstrate your worries. we use Makaton as a part of our regular routine at break time, so all children become familiar with some of the signs and those who have problems with speech helps us to understand what they want, We do use PECs but usually with the children already diagnosed and under speech therapy. We have in the past asked Area Senco in to observe, and advise about children 'unofficially' she was willing to do this and help us to take next steps with parents. In our area we can also refer ourselves for a speech therapy assessment , and have successfully done so with parents permission on several occasions, lets hope that something is forthcoming to help when you have your visits this week. Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wolfie Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 It's good that you've got the Health Visitor involved because she has hopefully already established good links and a relationship with the family, from the time of the child's birth, and may therefore know the best way to approach them with any concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Hi I have heard of makaton - is that what they use on the something special programme - also I went to classes like baby massage and 1st aid run by our local clinic when i had my eldest son there was a lady there whose child had downs and I think she used makaton. We will ask the SENCO people if we ever get through to them - my senco has been calling them since last wednesday and they still haven't got back to us. Mum signed a form for me this morning and she had spoken to her HV so i am expecting a call tomorrow from the HV for an update. I am sure if we all work together we can help him but someone needs to listen to us to find out where his problems lie. I like the idea of the pec cards as well again we will wait for our senco lady to get in touch i will update you when I know more Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Makaton is used on something special which can actually be a good resource to learn a few signs, we also occasionally show them to the children. Pecs has several different formats of pictures depending on the child so while they do work need to be done with speech therapy or under consultation. Children respond to different symbols and we have used Photographs as a start with Makaton pictures but currently use photos and boardmaker pictures. Some of these can be found on the BBC web site for Something Special, along with some help with Makaton including pictures to print and display if needed. we have had one child who taught us Makaton as he became so good at the special needs setting he attended along side us. Something Special Inge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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