Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I have to write a reference for a student who has now been in our setting for a year. She has applied for a job as a T.A at another school. The problem is we have not been impressed with her at all. She is regulary late, does not use her initiative, rarely follows instructions accurately and hasn't really built up a rapour with the children. Can anyone give me any advice on what on earth i am going to write in her reference?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I have been in a similar position where a temporary member of staff applied for a permanent post at a local school. I struggled to write the references for all the same reasons as yourself. I ended up writing a reference that in a round about way said that the member of staff would benefit from a mentoring program to enable her to develop in key areas. Its really tricky because I didn't want the other setting saying "you didn't tell us that..." Good Luck. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 work out a few positives and as said how she would benefut from further input in which areas make sure you are honest, as an employer who had an excellent reference only to find they really were a different person once working with us, similar problems timekeeping, initative, needing to be continually told several times for one task, we really felt let down by the referee, I ensure I am totally honest and if they need help with anything, must admit i say it these days, particularly where childrens education is involved.. Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Thank you - am i right in thinking i have to write things in a positive light i.e i cant write she rarely follows instructions??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliamch Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Many moons ago when I worked for royal mail, a manager told me they were not allowed to write a bad/negative reference. He said he spent ages writing 'between the lines' references hoping any prospective employers would take the hint. I've also known employers give glowing reports to staff they're desperate to get rid off! Sorry I've not been much help really Karrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Must admit i am desperate to get rid of her!!! However i would never be able to forgive myself knowing i had given a false reference. I have tried to write a 'between the lines' reference but have found it very difficult and it still sounds too positive!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I think you will find that you have to be honest about people these days, and you can come unstuck if you aren't. I am sure it is a legal requirement to write a reference that is honest, you can't say that somebody is good at their job when they are not. You cannot give a false impression. This is not an easy situation. I think I would state facts-if they are bad time keepers then you need to say so, but perhaps add that with support they could improve. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 i agree with Linda and if you feel you cannot be honest do not write one!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Just a note of caution here. Remember that the person you are supplying the reference for has a right to see it. If you are writing negative things about them make sure that you can substantiate them to safeguard yourself from being sued. My husband said they never dare write anything negative but equally you have to stick to the truth. I would advise keeping it brief, describing their duties and just picking out a couple of positive things - there must've been something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Has the person asking for the reference given you a set of questions to answer, such as Please comment on persons timekeeping? or are you starting from a blank sheet? If they haven't asked a question, then don't give any information not asked for. I have previously replied to a request for a refernce with the information of start date, and finish date, and number of days off. Need I say more I was recently asked for a reference for a member of staff who left 3 years ago , she had theory, the FD, but little practical skills, ie: unable to do an observation. Anyway I sent a brief reference. I got a phone call yesterday from the recruitment agency who asked for the reference wanting me to add more info. I said I didn't think it was very professional to comment over the phone without verifying who they were. I also said that my information was out of date. She said they were a supply teacher agency, so obviously in the last 3 years the x employee had achieved her QTS. I suggested they contact her placement school for a more relevant and up to date comment. The agency person then went on to try and sell their recruitment service to me, well I told her that if they relied on a reference from an employer from 3 years ago that I wasn't very impressed, and no thank you. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Peggy, you're priceless!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Peggy, you're priceless!! Ah, thanks Sue, now if you ever need a reference.......... I'll be glad to oblige. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I was getting worked up about it so i wen to see my head. In the end Peggy i did pretty much as you have said simply gave her start date and finish date and the age range she worked with. We are a fairly small authority and i wouldn't be able to look her future wmployer in the eye iff i had gven a false reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Glad to hear it's done and dusted and you could sort it and maintain your own integrity. Peggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marion Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Sometimes its not WHAT you say its what you DON'T say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Praesus Infelix Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I work for a fairly large company (as you may know, I only dabble in the FSF because I'm chairman) I our company only ever gives the age, rank and serial number type reference, mainly because they get asked so often. So, as Peggy said, dates of employment, days off sick and whether there were any discliplinary actions taken. We also do exit interviews and as a a manager I get asked whether I would re-employ that person again in the future. I think we give out that information, but only if specifically asked, and all our requests for references to ask this question of other compnaies. I believe that we have a cut off date too - because of the data protection act we don't keep HR information on ex-employees for ever. I don't know what we keep and how long we keep it, but I can find out if you want. I think it's different if you are being asked to give a personal reference, or if you have been asked to comment on a job description (which is what I send out with my preschool reference requests). I also think that you have at least a moral obligation, if not a legal obligation, to answer honestly if you are specifically asked about the candidate's suitability to work with children. All good reference requests in this field should specifically ask this question, IMHO. If you have been asked to give a a personal reference, then it may be more prudent just to write nothing, if you feel the need to reply at all (you don't have to, if you don't want to). It's always easy to write pages on some you like and that was good, so I often judge my responses by the length rather than the contents! Anyway, that's my twopennoth, so I'll stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Just been asked to do a reference for someone who left mid session leaving us with a child with special needs without her 1:1 as that was her role. there was no explanation, just grabbed her stuff and walked out never to be seen again...... never expected her to use us (probably just us listed as a previous employer) , cannot imagine what she is expecting us to say after her totally unprofessional conduct.. she was a qualified member of staff... hence my re visiting this to remind me of a 'suitable phrase' to use... may well end up using Peggys advice... name, dates of employment days off sick (there were a lot!!) as I really do not feel I would want to give any more... would anyone repond differently Thanks, just needed to voice my concerens before writing it!!! Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 just state the facts, Inge? X worked with us from ..... until ...... when she left suddenly, unexpectedly and without explanation. She was employed to support a child with special needs in an individual capacity but was frequently off sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Its really important that you just keep to the facts, which you can maybe back up with some sort of written evidence from your staff records. Never state your opinions as these could be deemed defamatory. Stating how many days sickness she had over the term of her employment and the fact that she left without giving notice should be enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inge Posted May 16, 2007 Share Posted May 16, 2007 Thank you, will do just that facts only, just wasnt sure if I should say she left without giving notice or mid session Inge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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