When A Child Leaves....

[Guest]

Hi all

 

I have had funding for a child who has now left our preschool, due to moving house.

 

Her new preschool left a message last week wanting to know where we had claimed up to,, we have received payment up to when we finish for the summer.

 

I have been told that you do not have to pass on any funding to new settings unless you wish to out of the kindness of your heart

 

I feel mean saying no, but i still have to pay staff, rent etc. Just wondered what you all do. This is the first time i have come across this

 

Jo

[Guest]

I would think that this scenario is quite common, I know I have been in this position on both sides, a child leaving me and a child coming to me after headcount week.

 

In Kent our rules were the same as yours, setting keeps the money. However, this is going to change as of september and the LA will retreive money back from the setting the child leaves and in the meantime pay the new setting the funding from when the child arrives with them.

This is good, I think, especially for preschools who often have children who move into their area after the headcount date, such as mine. However, the only thing is that it doesn't allow for our current policy which requires parents to give a months notice of intention to leave. I will still require this if the child also attends unfunded sessions, but cannot require it of the funded part of the session ( confused yet?)

 

Basically, what it means to me is that I will have to have contingency plans in place for 'losing' income at short notice, I will have to consider this when deciding budgets etc. As it is only likely that one maybe two children will move from my setting within a term, then this may not always affect the staffing level requirements, thus costs.

 

Each Local Authority has differing codes of practice for allocation of the education grant, so your best bet is to talk to them about your specific area.

 

In your current position ( which was how ours was) the term used was "Swings and Roundabouts", sometimes you gain funds if a child moves on and sometimes you lose funds if a child goes. I am glad that the decision of how to handle this in our area has been made mandatory and is being administered by the LA, so that it is equal for all settings, the money transfer is handled by the LA and this type of scenario is not just left to "kindness of heart"

 

Peggy

[hali]

i think we just keep the money.

[Inge]

we too had this problem but were able to keep the money as peggy said swings and roundabouts particulalrly as we too used to have them start after headcount. I kept the money!! and never had another group pay me any!

 

this changed in april LA now retreives money back from the setting the child leaves and in the meantime pay the new setting the funding from when the child arrives with them. we have to snd a declaration form in when a child leaves and a funding form signed by parents when they start.

Much fairer

 

Inge

[Guest]

We would be expected to forward the NEG to the new setting, payable from the date they started there.

 

Hard I know and I've had to do it and even harder when you can't fill the vacancy because it's too near the end of term etc.

[Smiles]

We have passed the funding on as Peggy says 'kindness of heart 'but have found that the all day nurseries will no reciprocate this to us. We have upped our nioitce parents have to give to four weeks as you all say it is not always easy to find someone mid term.

Might find our if ours are changing their policy would be better all round.

 

Smiles

[Deb]

We have to 'forward promptly' upon the request of another Dorset setting the unused weeks of funding for a child who has left' our setting. If the child is going to another setting outside our LEA, we have to reimburse our LEA.

 

'Funding may not be held for any reason if the child has left your setting, this includes in lieu of notice or for unpaid 'top up' fees'

 

On the plus side, we can claim for additional NEG for a child joining us or increasing sessions after the headcount date.

 

Hope this helps.

Deb

[Guest]

I see everyones notes on this and Peggy spoke about a months notice. Currently we charge a refundable of £50 deposit which is banked separately and put into a special account. If parents give half a terms notice, this is refundable to them. Are you saying that we cannot do this now? It just makes parents more aware. How often have I turned parents away because we have had no places, only to find out that I have two leavers the following week. Your advice please.

Nikki

[Inge]

Nikki,

 

refundable deposit? Whats one of those!!

 

we have not been allowed to charged funded children anything at all for ages. we used to but then had to stop and yes it causes problems with leaving or making bookings and never actually turning up!!

 

we can do it for non funded children but have to return it as soon as they are eligable...causes too much extra work for the ooccasional few we take before funding.

 

Inge

[Guest]

Thanks Inge, it has certainly got me thinking - I think I will go back and check my code of practice - parents really like the refundable deposit - they are all receiving their money back and are out spending it because they had forgotten all about it. But I am beginning to think to we may not be able to do this for funded children but we may have to adjust this and by asking for a non refundable deposit when they enter parent toddler group - perhaps this is one way around it or maybe not! The top up that parents pay for the additional half hour is so small now it would make it a nightmare to cover the difference on a weekly basis so we actually chrage it up half termly as for children on five days a week, the top up (additional half hour) only amounts to about £40 per half term. I think we are allowed to do this as we are not asking funded parents up front for fees for the 2 1/2 hours only for the difference and then we make it clear that parents have a choice. f Going back to the good old days!! I was paying more than £40 per week! Anyone else's opinion would be great.

Nikki

[Deb]

Hi, with our LEA we can charge for anything we offer over and above the 2 1/2 hours so long as it is transparent and we treat the non funded children the same. So we charge parents of funded children 65 p per child per session (half termly in advance) for the extra 1/4 of an hour (figure derived from our fee of £7.00 for non funded children per 2 3/4 hours). We also charge 10 p per child (all children) for snacktime, and £2.50 for lunch club.

 

Oh and we also have to make parents aware that they have a choice, they can opt to only send their child for the 2 1/2 hours.

 

I can remember the good old days too!

 

Deb

[Guest]

We are the same as you Deb,

However a recent change is that we can say the parent must attend the whole session ( whatever our session hours are), and if they only want to attend the 2.5 hrs then we can refer the parent to the LA who will find them a setting that only offers the 2.5 hrs.

 

In the case of deposits, I don't believe this is condusive to "free" places, because in it's own right it is a 'condition', the 'free' places, to remain 'free', must surely be unconditional at point of entry, to all parents.

 

I agree, nichola, how times have changed in terms of attitudes towards childcare & education, I was happy to pay the fees in full for my son to attend preschool ( I felt I got value for money), even though I was a single parent, I managed my money to enable me to purchase something I valued worth spending my little money on.

Today, the value for money attitude seems to be getting less, it seems to be more about "I'm entitled to, so I want more for someone elses money". ( all be it that most of us are tax payers and thus it is actually our money )

 

That I think is also a point, it is "public money" not 'belonging to providers or users, therefore we have to be seen to be spending 'public money' equally for all, not for gain but for providing the service that the government ( the payers) say we have to offer to recieve the money.

 

The politics of people who pay for the service, yet not actually being the consumers, is where all the confusion and changes in attitudes lie.

 

Peggy

[Guest]

Hi all and thanks for your replies.

 

After several phone calls from new nursery (and parent!) i phoned my local advisor for funding and she said we have 4 options:-

 

transfer funding to new setting

keep the money to fund a child who joined after head count day

return the money to our LEA

use the money to buy equipment, providing we keep a receipt for audit

 

we have decided to keep the money to help towards buying new equipment!

 

Maybe this is wrong of us, but every penny counts! and would they give it to us if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Do think it should be the same for all settings though... it seems unfair that some of us can keep it and others have to pass it on. (but will enjoy spending it while i can !!!)

 

Jo

[Lou]

Hi

I just wanted to add another option. The funding we receive is more than what we charge for our sessions and this is the same for most in our area. If you feel you want to pass the money on think about passing on the amount for the other pre-schools session charges. This way you can cover some of your staff costs and the child still should have access to a free place.