Funding Increase To 15hrs

[bubblejack]

I understand that eating lunch cannot be included in funded hours but does anyone know if this will change when the funding covers 3 hours. I open for 2 sessions a day split by the lunch club. I don't really want to be open after 3 o'clock!!!!!

[Guest]

Hi

We have had alot of debate over this in the last few months. I have been in contact with our development worker, early years advisor etc. They all say the same, the 15 hrs will be coming in but only as a trial in certain boroughs, then they will evaluate how it has worked, no one knows yet which boroughs it will effect. It may not be in everywhere till 2010.

They have not decided yet how the 3 hr session will be made up. This is the information i have been given. We are like you a pre-school doing 2 sessions a day plus lunch club my staff do not want to stay any later because of school committments.

It will be interesting to see what happens and how it effects us.

[Alison]

the answer is Yes they can eat lunch during sessions but there still has to be a gap between the am and pm sessions

 

I was told last week by our senior development worker that when session times go up to 3 hours we can include our current lunch club time as part of the sessions I thought great parents will love that at present NEG parents have been paying a top up fee,

 

but the development Officer then told me that because we only offer 4 mornings we may be required to open one afternoon to offer the 5th 3 hour session and then the rule about 1 hour between am/ pm NEG sessions also still stands, (not to mention needing to change from sessional to day care registration ).

 

who thinks of these rules??? ( dont get me started !)

[Guest]

Our current providers pack in Bristol says 'From April 2006 the minimum free entitlement of 12½ hours is available for 38 weeks a year for all three and four year olds. From April 2007 to April 2010 the minimum free entitlement will be extended to 15 hours for 38 weeks on a phased basis for three and four year olds.'

 

As far as our setting is concerned it means a quarter hour increase from 12 to 12.15. No great hassle and will actually suit some better as the neighbouring school also finishes at 12 at present and some people have to pick up from both.

 

Al

[Deb]

Told by local SureStart Business Development Officer that we will be able to use the NEG towards Lunch Club when it goes up to 3 hours but it will have to be planned for. Currently we don't plan any activities after lunch, not usually much time, we just follow the children's interests.

 

With regard to time off between am and pm - is there anything in NEG guidance document issued in March/April, cannot think what it was called, brain overloaded after busy morning.

 

 

 

Deb

[bubblejack]

Thanks for your comments. It is obviosly going to be an issue. As I provide care from 9.00-2.30 split by 30 mins lunch club I do not actually close the group for a break. I just wonder if people that make these rules really understand the practicalities of it. What happens to groups who just don't have use for their hall for extra sessions. There is a pre-school opposite us who can only have the hall for 4 sessions because other clubs use it.

[Inge]

Alison,

 

In our area we do not have to have the 1 hour break and 2 sessions can funded a day, which is 5 hrs together, lunch an be included in this.

 

Unfortunately as others to do this we have to change to full day care....tried that...no staff toilet seperate to the ones the children use (wonder where they think we go now, and why the difference when we are here all day already!) so unable to do so even though everything else is in place and we have 2 sessions a day with 1 lunch club. we only need a short break between sessions and now have 15 mins with no children in our care to keep us sessions! we do not have children for 2 sessions in 1 day though as we are open 5 days.

 

 

As always all areas have different criteria for funding... we seem to be an area which changes regularly and recently on settings and parents request to allow us to claim funding mid term for children.

 

Inge

[Guest]

I think you will find Alison that if you go for full day care then you don't have to have a break inbetween-that only applies to sessional settings. So you in fact have the same registration as day nurseries. It would then be your choice if you stayed "sessional", in that you only had children either in the morning or the afternoon, or went for taking them all day.

Linda

[Sue R]

Currently we don't plan any activities after lunch, not usually much time, we just follow the children's interests.

 

57337[/snapback]

 

Surely that's 'tailoring the curriculum'!!?

 

Go for it!

[Alison]

I know the break between sessions rule varies depending on sessional and full day care and also if the same children are going to be cared for in two sessions on the same day and Ill look into the full details my development officer said we would need a break as we would belooking after the same children all day.

 

I have so many worries about the impact that 15 hours of funding might have on children and sessional groups I wouldnt know where to stop, it would end up being a 10 page rant!!!

 

I can cope with the thought of increasing the length of sessions to three hours we already do that now but increasing to 5 sessions will be next to impossible in our church hall.

 

as for planning for the lunch break ours is "child initiated physical play"

(they run round the hall for 5 minutes til the mums come! )

[Guest]

I know the break between sessions rule varies depending on sessional and full day care and also if the same children are going to be cared for in two sessions on the same day and Ill look into the full details my development officer said we would need a break as we would belooking after the same children all day.

 

I have so many worries about the impact that 15 hours of funding might have on children and sessional groups I wouldnt know where to stop, it would end up being a 10 page rant!!!

 

I can cope with the thought of increasing the length of sessions  to three hours we already do that now but increasing to 5 sessions will be next to impossible in our church hall.

 

as for planning for the lunch break  ours  is "child initiated physical play"

(they run round the hall for 5 minutes til the mums come! )

57418[/snapback]

 

Hi We're now doing two three year old sessions in the same day. Our children have to leave the premises, then return so the parents sit outside in their cars giving the children a sandwich then bring them back in, we only have half an hour between sessions, i find it exhausting as we only get 15mins for lunch. Its also hard because you cannot offer the same curriculum, so more planning.

It's the children i feel sorry for, when my kids were small i wanted to spend as much time as possible with them, my children only did 3 morning sessions a week till they started school, and they are both now in secondary school and doing great. Don't these parents want to spend anytime with their children they grow up so fast!!!!

[Deb]

I can cope with the thought of increasing the length of sessions to three hours we already do that now but increasing to 5 sessions will be next to impossible in our church hall.

 

Alison, do you mean 5 sessions over 3 days? I thought we had to offer 5 sessions now in order to get the NEG but could be wrong. Although we are open 5 mornings (for 2 3/4 hours currently) one of the sessions is for the rising 5 children so do we technically offer 5 sessions to all our children??? We have our own portacabin.

 

With regard to a separate staff toilet, we looked into registering for full day care when we started our lunch club. We don't have a separate staff toilet but believe we could say that we would be able to use the School's toilet as we are on the school site. Of course, the reality is that we might not have sufficient staff numbers to allow a member of staff off the premises.

 

We are still registered as sessional day care as we are open for 5 minutes inside the 4 hours, in theory???

 

Deb

[bubblejack]

I have just found out that each sessions will have to be for a minimum of 3 hours BUT if providers can open for 15 hours over a minimum of 3 days that will be ok.I was told that providers will have to be more flexible.???????

I have also just read a newsletter from PSLA and it states that" Clarification of the governments recently indicated intention to increase from 12.5. to 15 hours entitlement in 2007 has now been deferred to 2010". So maybe we needn't worry about it for a while yet.

[Guest]

Alison I don't understand why you have to have a break if you go for full day care and looking after the same children all day. How do private day nurseries go on? They have children from 8 o'clock in the morning to 6 o'clock at night and obviously don't have a break in between.

If I were you I would go down the full day care route and that way you would not need a break-but you don't have to offer the long hours either.

Linda

[Sue R]

Yes, Linda, that's a good point. I do work in a Daycare setting - we don't 'switch the learning on and off' - good childcare is like good homecare! Weinterpret this as meaning there are learning opportunities everywhere in all everyday and care routines, so there is really no 'downtime'. In reality, at the moment, if a parent is only accessing funded sessions they do either ams - 9.00 - 11.30 or pms - 1.00 - 3.30. If they have any times outside they pay a 'top up'. However, we have discussed this with the NEG people locally and it appears that if we can demonstrate active learning opportunities there shouldn't be a problem. However, I feel this has got to be implicit in any new guidance issued, otherwise how else will these increasingly extended hours be practicable?? Could end up with pre-school children having longer days than school-age siblings

 

Sue (Don't shoot me down, it's been a long day!!!)

[Alison]

Deb

settings dont have to offer 5 sessions per week but the sessions that they do provide must be a minimum of 2.5 hours long the rules changed a few years back because until then we couldnt qualify for NEG.

 

parents are free to access the rest of their nursery grant entitlment in another setting.

 

As for breaks-

Linda, I was just saying what my development officer said to me which was how I had always understood it to be. (before the changes in April 2006)

 

I dont want to change to daycare so that I can offer back to back nursery education I think that 6 hours is too long for children to be engaged in activities without a break and to turn lunch break into part of the activities is unfair on the child yes I agree they learn so much during this time but why do we need to intrude on the childs meal time? Adults in the work place, children in primary school all have "switch off" times they are legal human rights, so why are 3 and 4 year olds being expected to be occupied all of that time?

 

I know children attend daycare all day without a break but that doesnt mean that from the second they walk into the setting to the minute they leave they are engaged in planned nursery education they are allowed rest periods meal breaks naps and they can only claim two sessions per day, there is still a break in Sue R's day between morning and afternoon session times when children are "at rest" from education if they are learning then it is child initiated and not instigated by adults

 

sorry I dont mean to rant, its good that more funding is available I just dont see why we cannt stick to 2 1/2 hour sessions if that what children and parents want, many of our children are falling asleep by the end of a busy morning, and I see them in the afternoons fast asleep in the prams as mums go to school to pick up brothers and sisters, I cannt imagine trying to keep them awake for an afternoon session as well.

[Guest]

Sorry Alison I have obviously completely misunderstood what you were meaning! When you said have a break in between I thought you meant with no children in your care. And I agree that mealtimes shouldn't be "educational" but a relaxing time when children are given the opportunity to rest and relax doing whaterver they want.

Linda

[Alison]

sorry Linda, that rant wasnt aimed at you personally, just the system. I should of put a bigger gap between the paragraphs

 

SORRY

[hali]

sorry to change the subject...but Linda love the great aunt bit...sorry if it has been there for a while but been up to my neck in work FD assignments and my daughter flooding the bathroom...........