catma Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Well, one persons lots is always another persons not enough...it's all relative I suppose. There is no defined "amount", nor could there ever really be. But there are only 17 ELGs rather than 117 scale points to individually consider!! Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Just had a read through and how depressing for a class like mine where they will be emerging in all areas. Do I REALLY have to report this to parents?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not really - to parents you would be discussing where they are in the dev matters. The outcome for the child is described as emerging, as it will be for any child not meeting the expected level, but their learning will be described through dev matters for parents. Therefore as I understand it my moderation of our special school children or any child not at ELG will be to see how evidence matches where they are on the dev matters framework. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Sally Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Just had a read through and how depressing for a class like mine where they will be emerging in all areas. Do I REALLY have to report this to parents?! My thoughts too......it was one of my bugbears when i first saw the revised curriculum....our parents really don't want to be told what their children can't do....: ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Sally Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not really - to parents you would be discussing where they are in the dev matters. The outcome for the child is described as emerging, as it will be for any child not meeting the expected level, but their learning will be described through dev matters for parents. Therefore as I understand it my moderation of our special school children or any child not at ELG will be to see how evidence matches where they are on the dev matters framework. Cx ....but that in itself is depressing for some parents to be told that their 4 year old child is in the 0-11 months age band!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 ....but that in itself is depressing for some parents to be told that their 4 year old child is in the 0-11 months age band!!! Why would that be a surprise by the end of reception though? They would have been told there was significant learning delay well before then I would hope, or noone else would have been doing their job along the way. Outcomes at the end of the year shouldn't be a surprise to parents if there is continuous dialogue as the EYFS expects. Cx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Noone is saying it will be a surprise. It's just not nice to see it over and over again. A constant reminder of how disabled their child is. On our observation sheets we have to put the developmental level on. I changed to sheet slightly so it said B-11 rather than Birth. Parents see these observations throughout the year and get data at annual reviews but we always try and be positive. I just think seeing that your child has not achieved anything in that assessment is hard reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I take your point, but would say that the EYFSP is not a progress measure and progress would be reported to parents just as it always has surely. Whether or not a child is at the ELGs is one thing but they will still have made progress within the development matters and that is the local discussion. The emerging "label" just signifies not at the ELG for data reporting purposes. I think we have to stop seeing it as another assessment, it's really reporting where you already know they are, against the EYFS framework, which parents would already know too. cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Sally Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Noone is saying it will be a surprise. It's just not nice to see it over and over again. A constant reminder of how disabled their child is. On our observation sheets we have to put the developmental level on. I changed to sheet slightly so it said B-11 rather than Birth. Parents see these observations throughout the year and get data at annual reviews but we always try and be positive. I just think seeing that your child has not achieved anything in that assessment is hard reading. I take your point, but would say that the EYFSP is not a progress measure and progress would be reported to parents just as it always has surely. Whether or not a child is at the ELGs is one thing but they will still have made progress within the development matters and that is the local discussion. The emerging "label" just signifies not at the ELG for data reporting purposes. I think we have to stop seeing it as another assessment, it's really reporting where you already know they are, against the EYFS framework, which parents would already know too. cx Some children won't have made progress within the developmental matters as they stand, we have to break them down into far more smaller steps to achieve that. I have parents who are still going through a grieving process for the child that could have been and Nicola is right they don't need reminding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes sadly most of my class will be still working at birth to 11 as they leave me. I have a class of profoundly disabled children who will probably be working at that level for years to come. As Aunt Sally says, A grieving proccess is still often ongoing in these early years. It's not that I'm having a go at the profile. It's just once again our very special children are not really catered for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Well, one persons lots is always another persons not enough...it's all relative I suppose. There is no defined "amount", nor could there ever really be. But there are only 17 ELGs rather than 117 scale points to individually consider!! Cx Sadly Catma there are just as many individual judgements to be made now as before if not more. It is disingenuous to give us five part sentences and call it less than one judgement. The only way practitioners are going to make honest 'best fit' judgements is by breaking them down and seeing how much of each ELG a child is achieving so please spare us the 'its now only 17 statements so its less work' line. The 40-60 month statements against which we are supposed to track children are so concise that our more able children have already met all of them. In your version we are then supposed to operate without regard to the ELGs until we pull them out in June and match them to all the evidence we have collected. In the real world we are starting to look at where children are 'best fitting' , where there are gaps and what the NC levels look like. This is the only way we will be able to track progress through the year. If people put off doing this until June they will be faced with making some 3000 + judgements in a short space of time. The only thing to be grateful for is that where the old statements were pretty much all or nothing at least with these ELGs if a child has a majority of the ELG it should be awarded. So is a 'best fit' when a child has more than half, more than two thirds, or more than three quarters? What happens when new concepts are introduced in the ELGs which aren't in the 40-60 development matters? And by the way does anyone else think some of the 'exemplifications' seem somewhat lacking in relevance to the ELG? Can I also say that they are a fantastic blueprint of relevant observations of wonderful open ended practice for the most part. The writing examples will I think be particularly useful and be a good point to start conversations with year 1 staff about writing progression into the NC levels. Phew! I feel better for getting that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Androyd, In your version we are then supposed to operate without regard to the ELGs until we pull them out in June and match them to all the evidence we have collected. In the real world we are starting to look at where children are 'best fitting' , where there are gaps and what the NC levels look like. This is the only way we will be able to track progress through the year. If people put off doing this until June they will be faced with making some 3000 + judgements in a short space of time. Some rather unecessary remarks don't you think, suggesting I live in some kind of parallel universe peopled by "them". I will assume you didn't mean to cause upset with them. In the specific post quoted you appear to have mssed the ironic note I was aiming for, as indeed I may have done in yours. I'm slightly confused as to why you think I or indeed any sensible person would NOT be tracking through the year. If you can show me where I have said this unequivocally, please let me know, so I can amend. Cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I apologise for late night snappiness. However the main point remains that despite there only being 17 ELGs there are as many assessment points as before, if not more and they are less easy to identify. Practitioners need to both come to terms with the complexity of theELGs and start looking at NC levels now. Has anyone had any guidance on what proportion of an ELG allows us to count it as achieved- this really is the key point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Hi Nichola and Aunt Sally Hope you are both well. Just been reading the profile, and agree with all you say - chocolate teapot comes to mind!!!! Like you, all my very special children will be at Birth to 12 months stage most of thier lives!!!! And like you say the Development Matters dont help either as they too have to be broken down into much, much smaller steps!!! We use B Squared to help with this. We send school reports to parents at the end of the year, which are very positive and "I can", or "I have enjoyed"!!!! Parents don't need to be told again what they can't do. We colour code each Dev Matter ie red Birth to 11 months, green 8-20 months etc. Staff know what they mean, but it is a bit more friendly for parents seeing a colour rather than an age. Hope you have a Happy 2013, and continue to enjoy "the best job in the owrld" with our amazing little ones. Hope you'll keep in touch and share ideas and thoughts so we can get it right and positive for our amazing children xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aunt Sally Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hi Nichola and Aunt Sally Hope you are both well. Just been reading the profile, and agree with all you say - chocolate teapot comes to mind!!!! Like you, all my very special children will be at Birth to 12 months stage most of thier lives!!!! And like you say the Development Matters dont help either as they too have to be broken down into much, much smaller steps!!! We use B Squared to help with this. We send school reports to parents at the end of the year, which are very positive and "I can", or "I have enjoyed"!!!! Parents don't need to be told again what they can't do. We colour code each Dev Matter ie red Birth to 11 months, green 8-20 months etc. Staff know what they mean, but it is a bit more friendly for parents seeing a colour rather than an age. Hope you have a Happy 2013, and continue to enjoy "the best job in the owrld" with our amazing little ones. Hope you'll keep in touch and share ideas and thoughts so we can get it right and positive for our amazing children xxx Hi BevL We too use BSquared ....i have just recenty received the updated version which makes tracking a much easier process as i only had the 2008 version previously. Like you our reports are always positive with lots of photos showing what they can do and experience. We will not be stopping that practice. Do we have to put on it 'emerging' i haven't read enough of the profile to know if it is statutory? I did think it was interesting that a child could be exempt if they had spent a lengthy period of time away from the setting, for example, due to illness or medical treatment. A lot of our pmld children spend a lot of time in hospital and sadly in special schools this is going to become a norm as we are getting more and more children with conplex medical needs due to the medical interventions which are now available. All the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Hi – I am hoping you can help me out with a question regarding the EYFS profile. I have been reading and studying the ARA documents and exemplification materials in my holidays and cannot get my head around exactly HOW the data is to be collected. I understand the 1, 2, 3 A system that is going to be the judgement against each learning goal but have West Sussex or anyone else got a ‘form’ that we are to fill in or am I jumping the gun too early?! I have read that it says “EYFS providers may use any system to collect and submit EYFS data, as long as it enables practitioners to record completed profile data for every child at the end of the EYFS. However, EYFS providers should agree the preferred system with their local authority”. Have I missed the agreed West Sussex format please or do you know if there is one widely being used or not published yet etc? Many thanks for your time Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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