Guest eck1975 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hi All, Firstly - Apologies - I am sure this is a topic that has raged before ... but we are expecting the Big 'O' anytime, so I want to be really clear (if possible!) on my data analysis & expectations etc Is it stated anywhere that an 'average' child is expected to come into Reception with 3 scale points? When I am asked to analyse my class data to see whether the children enter Reception 'below average' - what is below average? Am soooo sorry if I'm being thick ... but Nursery assess and track where children are within the month bands e.g. 30-50, 40-60 etc. I have been told by someone that if they're working within 40-60 then they're working within scale points 1-3, but someone else told me that if they're working at 30-50 they're within 1-3 scale points. Does anybody know of anywhere where it is stated an 'average' child's progess is X amount of points, 'good' progress is Y amount of points, and 'outstanding' progress is Z amount of points? I guess what I'm asking is when Ofsted make a judgement about the progress that has been made, are they looking for children to have made 4/5/6 point progress?? As everyone, I am under pressure to prove! prove! prove! Prove they came in below average and have made good progress ... I will fight my corner, given the opportunity, as I feel I do know the children really well, but if judgments are made on data alone ... what do I need to prove/show?? Have spent hours analysing boys/girls/class/eal/fsm, for each area of learning and for each strand of PSED, CLL & PSRN ... where they were in Sept, where they left, how many points progress was made etc etc ... and I guess I'm feeling a bit like I can't see the wood for the trees now ... If anyone has had Ofsted recently - could you please give me a few clues what they were looking for? Thank you in advance, I know someone will come up with some useful advice! xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I will be watching this with interest as our Reception teacher has told us that she expects children to come to her having achieved the first 3 scale points. These do not directly match the EYFS development matters and as you say, some fall within 30-50 and some within 40-60. My argument is that lots of children leave us still aged 3 (They are due to turn 4 in July/August) and are quite legitimately working in the 30-50 age band. However I asked an EYFSA if we were indeed expected to work to teh scale points 1-3 and she said no not at all. Hmmmm we shall see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Posts like these make me wonder in the sense of nursery and reception having two entirely different types of assessment!! Where is the sense in that? I think the "O" people want to know if the children have made good progress from entry into nursery and on leaving foundation stage. I was asked for percentages in our inspection two weeks ago. Percentages of levels of baseline scores. I could show the nice printed out charts but the system we use, provided by our county does not give percentages so I could not answer that question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 (edited) Well,here's how I explain it to my settings. one is formative - the development matters. The other is summative - the EYFSP. They aren't different as such, they serve different purposes. 1-3 points on entry. It's not written as a directive that settings should use them. However, children could be achieving within or all of the scale points 1- 3 - if you look at the skills rather than just the words then there is a match within and across the expectation of secure 22-36/emerging 30 - 50 on entry to FS2. The words are not exactly the same because they are derived from a previous version of the EYFS framework. The scale points 1 - 3 match to the old stepping stones but the skills are developmentally the same pitch. Nursery staff do not have to make EYFSP judgements as technically they are an end of key stage asessment and there is no requirement to complete them until the summer term in which a child completes the EYFSP. Many do and yes, children would typically be somewhere within the first 3 scale points, unless of course they are working at the developmental level of a secure 40 -60+ year old and are already attaining the elgs or are below expectations and are not achieving yet on the scales. Does anybody know of anywhere where it is stated an 'average' child's progess is X amount of points, 'good' progress is Y amount of points, and 'outstanding' progress is Z amount of points? I guess what I'm asking is when Ofsted make a judgement about the progress that has been made, are they looking for children to have made 4/5/6 point progress?? It isn't related to this at all and it's not written anywhere that I know of!! Schools use average point scores but this isn't how Ofsted use the data as such. Ofsted make it very clear in their inspecting the foundation stage (for section 5 inspections) document that children would be on track if secure 22-36, emerging 30 -50 when they start nursery, secure 30 - 50/emerging 40 - 60+ on entry to Reception and then they secure 40 - 60+, ie meet the ELGs, as in scale points 4 - 8 during the reception year. Depending on how well the school supports children from lower starting points, across the vulnerable groups etc to achieve a good overall level of development (78+ points including 6+ in all CLLD/PSED scales) then judgements may be good or even outstanding for outcomes. Ofsted are looking at overall progress from on entry to exit using the on entry judgements into either nursery/reception or both. Outcomes for the previous 3 years are often looked at to see trends over time in achievement. If anyone has had Ofsted recently - could you please give me a few clues what they were looking for? Clues not needed - it's all on the Ofsted website somewhere!!! "Judging progress in the Early Years Foundation Stage Progress from the age-related expectations at the beginning of nursery, to the age-related expectations at the beginning of reception, on to the end of reception where they can be compared with Early Years Foundation Stage Profile national figures is likely to represent satisfactory progress during the Early Years Foundation Stage. However, contextual factors should be taken into account. It is important not to confuse the government's public service agreement targets and definition of a ‘good level of development’ and a ‘good level of achievement’ with the ‘progress’ that demonstrates the school’s added value. It is important that inspectors take account of how well children learn and develop in relation to their starting points and capabilities. For example, a 'good level of overall achievement' explained by the public service agreement targets and definitions, as shown by gaining 78+ scale points with 6+ in all scales of personal, social, emotional development and communication, language and literacy might represent outstanding progress for children who started at a level much lower than that expected for their age. However, for an able child starting at a higher point, such ‘good achievement’ might only demonstrate satisfactory progress. " Cx EYFS_Inspecting_EYFS_Guidance.doc Edited October 24, 2011 by catma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hi I teach reception and I would expect that the 'average child' comes to me on point 2 or above on the profile across the board and the vast majority do and a good third of my children come in secure up to point 3 in all areas. I transfer info from the transition document which is in developmen bands to the profile from my feeder playgroup alongside my own observations to arrive at their starting point. For good progress to be achieved it is expected that each child makes a minimum of 4 points progress for the progress by Ofsted to be considered good. When we were inspected in June I had prepared all my data and worked out the average point progress at that point for each area and the points progress ranged from 4 points in some areas to almost 6 in other areas. If you consider that a child should make 4 points progress over the year and that the 'average' child should score 6 points or more by the end of reception, then coming in at point 2 of the profile is perfectly reasonable. My head has told me that I have to be very careful giving out 8 or 9 unless I am absolutely certain that the child can potentially achieve a level 3 at the end of KS1 so that leaves me with a narrow margin for children to achieve their 4 points progress ie a child can only be given point 2 or 3 on entry otherwise we cannot make the 4 points progress we need. It gets a bit political really and unfortunately my head takes the profile scores and turns them into targets for the end of Y1 and if I am not conservative with my scores on entry and at the end of the year then the poor Y1 teacher has unreasonable targets and expectations to achieve with them. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hello Kitty Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I hate all this political stuff we have that at school too with teachers being told to dumb down the scores so they look like they've made better progress. Guess who gets the blame for the below average average the school has (IYSWIM!) There doesn't seem to be a way for us to properly show the progression they make with us as lots of our children come in at 30-50 and leave us in the same band - because that's where they should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eck1975 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Thank you all for your comments, advice, help, particularly to Catma - it is very clear and it is what I know really ... it's just that mass panic seems to be setting in (even though we haven't had the call yet ...) The school as a whole was judged satisfactory last time, with all aspects of EYFS good. We have had a change of leadership since then (but same EYFS staff) and we really want to show that the school as a whole is good, however sometimes it feels they they think we don't know what we're doing ... and sometimes panic breeds panic and I keep stressing that EYFS is not even going to get good because end of year averages dipped last year - but that was the cohort! And, they did still make good progress. I need to have faith in myself because I know the data and I know the children and I have always been honest with my data. Thank you again, and I will try to stop stressing! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catma Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I've just noticed an error in my post: It's not written as a directive that settings should use them. However, children could be achieving within or all of the scale points 1- 3 - if you look at the skills rather than just the words then there is a match within and across the expectation of secure 22-36/emerging 30 - 50 on entry to FS2. Should read across the 30- 50 emerging 40- 60 on entry to FS2. cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emz321 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I have just been to our county's moderation information meeting and they say that nurserys ect do not use the EYFSP (early years foundation stage profile) and that an average child will enter recepetion at scale point 3. we are told to use the nursery data as our baseline so we can either ask the nurseries to tell use what band they are working in, if they are working in 30-50m then most will be scale point 3 or our nurseries (as mine come from 15 different ones) have highlighted sheets from development matters and i just match them up to the scale points (as the early learning goals 1-3 are just some of the points 30-50m from development matters) its hard to explain but if you look at them together you can see. But i feel you have to make your own judgement as well because the nursery might say they are working in the 30-50m band but i would not give them all 3 points in CLL for example as my children tend not to beable to R3: recognise a few familiar words or LSL3: links some sounds to letters ect.. Busybee deb who told you they should make 4 points progress as we have been told: that by the end of reception an average children would have achieved 6 scales points in each area / so in reception they would make 3 points progress if they came into reception as average (with 3 scale points) Also we are told and are heads are told that you cannot use EYFSP to determine what they will get at the end of KS1 and there is lots of research to show that a child might be a 9 in reception but not neseccarily get a 3c in year 2 because recpetion is a different way of learning/ asessing. so you shouldn't hold back on 8/9 if you fell a child desserves it! you just think yor getting your head round it and oh look its all gnna change!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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