Early Year's Professional V Qt

[Guest]

I've been employed on a temporary contract for 6 months as a Children's Centre teacher, however a reduced budget has put my role in the firing line and I am being asked to work as an EYP. Is anyone else in the same position? I've been asked to see if I can find a job description for an EYP employed in a CC.

 

Can anyone help or offer advice?

Edited April 3, 2011 by Guest

[JacquieL]

Dear me what a dilemma. I think you need to ask yourself a lot of questions based on your experience. Are you a qualified EYP? Did you move from a school into this role? Will this role just be a way of reducing your salary but performing the same role? Is this a job you really want to do? Sorry not to be more helpful but I'm wondering if you need to have a chat with your union, if only to let them know that this is happening.

[Susan]

My views too, although sounds to me as if you could have QTS?

[JacquieL]

Are you paid as an LA teacher at present, as changing role could mean you loose benefits like your pension and your ability to move up the teachers pay spine in your next job? I think the answer to this is also in where you see your career moving on to in the long term. Lots to think about.

How sad it is that a post graduate qualification like EYPS is not paid in Early Years as a QTS, which means that this can be used as a cheaper option.

[Guest]

Thanks to you all for so many replies.

 

I qualified as an upper primary school teacher about 20 years ago and do have QTS. I have worked in school in various roles and when the CC opened I eventually ended up working as part of the outreach team. The role of teacher has always been difficult to fill so I did EYPS as a way of retraining for work with early years. I am currently employed on teacher's main scale but with the proposed change would still be employed by the same county council and so would not lose my continuity of employment. I would however be working full time as opposed to term time on a lower payscale.

 

It seems to me that the job will basically be the same but, as there is no longer a compulsion for centres to employ a teacher, it's much cheaper and fits in better with the centre's openings to employ an EYP.

[Guest]

I've just had sort of the same problem. had someone come to me with Early years experience as QTS and was looking to get back into work and the LA has told her that if she wants to work in a Pre-school setting she would need to do her EYP even though as far as I can see she is more qualified!!! Just because she doesn't have 0-3 experience. Which as a mother of 2 she has but they won't take that into account. I think for some QTS's being in a setting works quite well when they have young children

[Guest]

That is ridiculous.

We have been told that the criteria to employ an EYP in every setting by 2015 will change to 'employ an early years graduate, either teacher or EYP'. Also mentioned in Ticknell report.

 

If you are a primary teacher who trained specifically for Early Years and that is on your certificate you are the 'graduate' quality that was discovered was so effective during the EPPE project. When there were no EYPs.

On the strength of that the government set up the EYP qualification as they want more people like this in Early Years but most early years teachers are not attracted to this sector as they can get a starting salary of £25, 000 in schools and can go on to earn much more. I left teaching 5 years ago on a fantastic salary.

Until EYP's have a similar starting pay and a pay spine, that rises with experience or responsibilities, like teachers, then it surely has to be a 'lower status' qualification. Why would an EY teacher put themselves through the EYP course only to be rewarded with a lower salary than if they are employed as a teacher? Plus, teachers get 13 weeks paid holiday. What an earth am I doing in the pre-school sector???!!! Like other teachers, the hours are very good if you have young children of your own.

 

I'm sorry to sound grumpy but after reading on here talk of EYP's taking Reception classes I feel the Early Years teaching qualification is being phased out which is a purely money saving device. Having just mentored a student through EYP I still do not think the two courses are comparable. PGCE students do 14 weeks of teaching practice, have seminars on Maths, English, Science, P.E, ICT, Art etc. They are taught how to teach children to read and write, lots of stuff on assessment, special needs, phonics in addition to learning through play, creative curriculum, Vygotsky etc. My EYP student had hardly any taught modules and instead had to do lots of reading and 'evidencing'. Much of the evidencing was things that we had created as a staff team or that I had explained to her (with my teaching knowledge)

 

I also feel quality is being lost with the demise of the NNEB in place of the NVQ3 in 'a little bit of everything' (can't remember what it is called, Children's Workforce....something?)

 

I am beginning to think it is comparing apples and carrots. The EYP qualification is probably the best for working with 0-3 years and in a Children's Centre but I think the 3-5 year olds benefit from the input of an Early Years teacher. I think the best qualification to run a Children's Centre would be a degree that blended Nursery Management with Social Care.

[Pimms o'clock?]

As an EYP with many years experience of understanding how children learn and an indept knowledge of child development as opposed to teaching children there is a lot I could say in reply to Edlee but I think it would be best if I kept my mouth firmly shut.

[mundia]

Hello jlawrence, this is a dilemma which is likely to face many CC teachers now or soon. Like Jacquie, I think a chat with your union might be a good idea.

 

One of the issues for CC teachers was always that the contracts were fixed term or temporary, which means that what is happening to you can happen, if you see what I mean. In my former LA, around half of the CC teachers are losing their jobs, and have no idea where they are going to get employment next; whereas in my current one, we have managed to keep all of ours.

 

I am presuming form your question, that you are happy to remain in this job even on different working conditions and salary?

 

You will also need to check your pension position, as you wont be able to contribute to TPS if you are not employed as a teacher., but will probably be in the local govt pension scheme, which will have slightly different benefits.

 

I hope it all works out for you.

[JacquieL]

mundia is spot on advising you about checking your pension arrangements if you are no longer employed under teacher's pay and conditions. You will be in a different pension scheme as an LA employee, and it will not be under such advantageous arrangements as the TP scheme which you have been paying into for 20 years. That can of course be frozen. As you have been in it for a long time your benefits are better than those employed more recently, and if you leave it and then contract back in you will be under the new conditions. I don't know chapter and verse but I would seriously take some specialist advice, start with your union, as you may find you have a lot to lo0se, and even if it doesn't matter now it will when you retire.

[Guest]

I'm sorry to sound grumpy but after reading on here talk of EYP's taking Reception classes I feel the Early Years teaching qualification is being phased out which is a purely money saving device. Having just mentored a student through EYP I still do not think the two courses are comparable. PGCE students do 14 weeks of teaching practice, have seminars on Maths, English, Science, P.E, ICT, Art etc. They are taught how to teach children to read and write, lots of stuff on assessment, special needs, phonics in addition to learning through play, creative curriculum, Vygotsky etc. My EYP student had hardly any taught modules and instead had to do lots of reading and 'evidencing'. Much of the evidencing was things that we had created as a staff team or that I had explained to her (with my teaching knowledge)

 

From someone who has worked very hard gaining her EYP - I feel a little miffed, that you believe that the EYP should not be comparable - through my Early Years Degree which I had to gain before undertaking the EYP I indeed had lots of seminars on similar subjects and have had to evidence theorists throughout my work, the evidencing through my setting visit was all my own work and yes you have to involve the staff obviously as change is needed to be undertaken by all but it was throughout my dedication that change was understaken and reviewed. I think a person undertaking an Early Years Degree followed by an EYPS is about as qualified in early years as you can get - discuss LOL

[Guest]

The PGCE is just a one year course building on a degree which could be totally not related to early years or even education. The one year is of course only 39 weeks or even 30. Fourteen weeks on placement then does not leave that much for covering all theoretical practice. Starts to make early years foundation degree, top up and then EYPS look pretty impressive!!!

Additionally chidrens centres need full time staff not term time only. I have never understood why there was an influx of QTS into children's centres - EYPS is the right qualification and now just needs the right salary.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Chill

[JacquieL]

I think that a qualification is as good as the person who holds it. There are 'good' and 'bad' whatever the pathway. I think we only have to look around this forum to see that people from different backgrounds and routes into EYFs are as dedicated and knowledgeable as each other, and have studied extensively around the subject.

 

Just to say also that hereabouts the QT's in CC's work in a different way to schools, some are on the Soulbury Scale which means much shorter holidays and some have their holidays spread in different ways throughout the year. The Heads of Centre are QTS and have, or study for, the National Professional Qualification for Integrated Centre Leadership.