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Advice Needed


marley
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Hi all

A bit of a dilemma...background is that out of school club is registered for 3 - 11 yrs.

 

We do take children from 4yrs that go to club in the morning, pre-school followed by early years at school in afternoon then school club.

We now have a parent who wants to use the holiday club whose son goes to our local pre-school and he turned 3 in Dec. Some committee are a bit concerned given that he will be mixing with children (ok lets face it older bositerous boys!!). Considering he doesnt even go the school either they think he is too young.

 

What do you think?

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If you have a place and you are registered to take from 3 I am not sure quite what the problem is!

 

If someone talks with Mum re the mix of age of children etc and she makes an informed decision surely then it is her decision.

 

Why be registered to take from 3 if in fact you dont take three year olds!!

 

Our afterschool club takes from nursery (age 3) up to 11 year olds and it works very well most of the time. The younger ones often enjoy the input from older ones.

 

Can you offer the child a trial run?

 

I am sure if the child doesnt settle or isn't happy Mum will address this as she sees fit.

 

I dont think some of the committee members being worried about it, is a valid reason not to give it a try.

You also say he is not from the school.......... unless you have a policy to say you only take from your school I think that is discrimination too!!!!

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This will be a good chance to check that your systems are in place and working well.

 

Have a think as a staff team (invite committee too if you like!) about how you actually cater for younger children, and also how you deal with behaviour of older children.

 

Often having younger children around can be a good dampener on the more aggressive behaviour you sometimes get from the older ones. You could even encourage some group activities which involve both the 3 year olds and the 11 year olds!

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Guest jenpercy
This will be a good chance to check that your systems are in place and working well.

 

Have a think as a staff team (invite committee too if you like!) about how you actually cater for younger children, and also how you deal with behaviour of older children.

 

Often having younger children around can be a good dampener on the more aggressive behaviour you sometimes get from the older ones. You could even encourage some group activities which involve both the 3 year olds and the 11 year olds!

 

I think you will have to have a very good reason not to take if you are registered for 3 year olds (and I can't think of one that will satisfy Mum. normally the mums of our 4 year olds want to be sure that there will be others of the same age. i think that 3 is probably too young, but then our registration has always been from 4 upwards. if you don't want to take 3 year olds, you need to have the appropriate registration

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I think you will have to have a very good reason not to take if you are registered for 3 year olds (and I can't think of one that will satisfy Mum. normally the mums of our 4 year olds want to be sure that there will be others of the same age. i think that 3 is probably too young, but then our registration has always been from 4 upwards. if you don't want to take 3 year olds, you need to have the appropriate registration

 

 

Hi Jen

 

We have always been 4 yrs and up and as far as we know never changed it! Have been looking at other local school clubs and their registrations all say 3 yrs too but if yu read there OFSTED reports they sometimes dont stipulate age but if they do they say from 4 yrs up...just wondering if it was a standard registration from OFSTED re 3 yrs old??

 

Do tend to agree with you lot and it is now on agenda for next committee meeting to discuss.. heres hoping they listen to me!

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Yes thats us. Ofsted gave us the registration from 2 years but our professional judgement is that the hall is not suitable for 2 year olds, although we are a friendly homely evironment we have a very large hall, and we feel children need to be secure in a more enclosed space.

That said we do have in our Prospectus that we will take a 2 year old in exceptional circumstances, which we did when a mother was dying of Cancer and the elder sister was already attending and brother was 2 years 5 months.

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my first thought was no def. no but having read scatterangels post i thought well why not. If mum is fully informed. After all lots of young children have very grown up brothers and sisters.

 

I am all for mixing ages in nurseries and if i had my own i would have mixed ages together.

 

so i guess my answer is now YES

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Just got email from committee member...

 

"I too am concerned about 3 yr olds at the club. So to clarify the situation I have spoken to my sister-in-law, she is a Ofsted National compliance officer. . She agrees with my concerns:

What she said is very interesting:

 

1.Our licence was changed due to changing of the wording of EYFS guidelines.

 

2. We can ask Ofsted to check our licence and say it might be wrong and get them to send us a new one. Changing it to age 4, she said last time it cost £5. However the price could have changed and to vary the licence voluntarily might cost more. If we do this then taking 3 yr olds breaks our licence. She says it will probably only take a phone call to check this.

 

3. Are we covered by our insurance as it covered us for 4-11 before not 3-11?

 

3. In the mean time we can say no due to health and safety considerations, and the general welfare of the child. or more importantly the welfare of the other children. i.e will we have to change our routines etc for the child to fit in with the club. This would be determental to the other children.

 

4. When ofsted visit us they will look at whether the child being there is risk assessed, (we will need to do a new one) and that the care is there for both the age groups. That the care of the child does not impact on the care of the other children. Like I stated earlier we should not be changing activities to fit in a 3 year old if it stops the 11 yr olds from playing normally.

 

5.. She also agrees that out lack of nappy changing facilities is a major issue. We are breaking our welfare guidelines if we do not have this facility.

.

 

What do you think????

Edited by marley
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Guest jenpercy
Just got email from committee member...

 

"I too am concerned about 3 yr olds at the club. So to clarify the situation I have spoken to my sister-in-law, she is a Ofsted National compliance officer. . She agrees with my concerns:

What she said is very interesting:

 

1.Our licence was changed due to changing of the wording of EYFS guidelines.

 

2. We can ask Ofsted to check our licence and say it might be wrong and get them to send us a new one. Changing it to age 4, she said last time it cost £5. However the price could have changed and to vary the licence voluntarily might cost more. If we do this then taking 3 yr olds breaks our licence. She says it will probably only take a phone call to check this.

 

3. Are we covered by our insurance as it covered us for 4-11 before not 3-11?

 

3. In the mean time we can say no due to health and safety considerations, and the general welfare of the child. or more importantly the welfare of the other children. i.e will we have to change our routines etc for the child to fit in with the club. This would be determental to the other children.

 

4. When ofsted visit us they will look at whether the child being there is risk assessed, (we will need to do a new one) and that the care is there for both the age groups. That the care of the child does not impact on the care of the other children. Like I stated earlier we should not be changing activities to fit in a 3 year old if it stops the 11 yr olds from playing normally.

 

5.. She also agrees that out lack of nappy changing facilities is a major issue. We are breaking our welfare guidelines if we do not have this facility.

.

 

What do you think????

 

I agree that you must be able to change nappies whatever age group you take if this is necessary as this cannot be a reason in itself for not taking a child. however as you take over 4s you can write a toiletting plan for any chld on an as needs basis. However it would be good practice to consider this and have the bones of a contingency plan.

 

i think that we told OFSTED when we received our new certificate that we were from 4 and they changed it free.

 

Yes you would have to change your insurance. This could be costly. It cost me £27 to change mine to include 16-18 year olds. It may well be expensive to go down to 3. You have grounds there for refusal.

 

I also think that mixed age groups where you have several children of each age is different from having 6 children including a 3 year old and an 11 year old (from your other thread).

 

this particular 3 year old MAY be very well-adjusted and old for their age BUT if you take one you have to be prepared to take any 3 year old.

Edited by jenpercy
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