Behaviourable Problems

[Guest]

Hi, I am after a bit of advise. We are currently looking at policies and procedures but would like to know what you would do with a child who is very challanging in an agressive manner. We already know that to get senco support (5 hours per week one to one) in our area is difficult enough but if a child had behaviour issues how would we deal with this if the child needed one to one support. We are a voluntary run preschool and struggle to pay for one to one care and dont believe we would get senco support.

[Rea]

Here in Birmingham we can call on the PLA who have a team of inclusion workers who can come out to a setting to support and offer guidance for upto 70 hours. How we use the hours is up to us, we might want once a week or twice or more. It used to be called Project Link, but I think it changed.

Your staff need to be consistant with their approach. The same sanctions, the same expectations. Is the child bored, over tired, over stimulated? You need to look at the causes of the behaviour. Is it really bad or is the setting not offering what the child needs? Do the parents have concerns? I've worked in nurseries with 'naughty' children, only to observe they just need more space to run, be alone, time to finish something. It was the behaviour expected that wasnt approriate not the actual behaviour.

Have you got an area SENCO who could come and give advice? Your setting Senco should be able to call on someone else to help with drawing up a plan to help all staff.

I can attach our Behaviour policy if it helps.

behaviour.docx

Edited December 14, 2010 by Rea

[finleysmaid]

every area is different for sen support so probably best to speak to your area advisors. I currently have two children under review one will probably get financial support the other is unlikely because the two boroughs priorities are different.

[Guest]

I think that without the help of our SENCO as a staff we wopuld have been doomed at the start of this year.

 

Our school SENCO I might add!!

 

The area SENCO had knowledge of this child who came to us in January and but did not put anything in place, in writing or even talk to us about the child's needs and cutting a long story short we spent a term trying to cope with 2 staff and 23 other children besides this young man who is autisitc and on the severe side of that diagnosis.

 

I don't lnow how we managed until Easter!!!!!! It was so wearing and we knew we weren't supporting him properly or supporting the others too. It was a terrible situation to be in

 

He really did need one to one support and we were told there was no money etc I even wrote a letter stating how worried I was that to be inclusive of one child was making the place unsafe for the others...................... anyway we did get support but to be honest our SENCO at least acknowledged our issues were real and she did her best to support us because morale was in our boots.

Our early years advisor came in and was appalled also to see the behaviour and how we had been left unsupported.

 

I think you need to get someone in to talk to you and see how you go about getting support.

This child now does a split placement but he is fully supported in the sessions with us.

 

Good luck x

[trekker]

Hi - just wondered what people say if / when parents tell you they have told their child to hit back if a (SEN) child hits them?

Parent is on committee and should know better (has worked in early years and knows we are woking at minimum ratios)...child concerned has made so much progress but parents of other children hear "X hit me today" (could just be a shove on the way past as they were in the way which most children are guilty of...) and assume their child is being bullied - not like that at all but seemed there is no convincing this particular parent.

[thumperrabbit]

Hi - just wondered what people say if / when parents tell you they have told their child to hit back if a (SEN) child hits them?

Parent is on committee and should know better (has worked in early years and knows we are woking at minimum ratios)...child concerned has made so much progress but parents of other children hear "X hit me today" (could just be a shove on the way past as they were in the way which most children are guilty of...) and assume their child is being bullied - not like that at all but seemed there is no convincing this particular parent.

 

Trekker, just wondered how you dealt with this parent in the end?

We are going through something similar at the moment (although our child isn't SEN) but the parents of the child who has been hit (it was the 1st time for this particular child) want him excluded and won't bring their child back until we do so

[Guest]

Trekker, just wondered how you dealt with this parent in the end?

We are going through something similar at the moment (although our child isn't SEN) but the parents of the child who has been hit (it was the 1st time for this particular child) want him excluded and won't bring their child back until we do so

 

 

Wow that's certainly tricky situation, but surely the parent can't expect them to go through their whole school life without ever having been hurt by another child. Most children, particularly boys, get hit at some point by another child during their school life. It's just children being children and learning their boundaries!

 

Is this a child who hits often? Perhaps you could talk to the parents and let them know how you are dealing with it and why it isn't appropriate to exclude the child. I'm sure you've already tried this, but perhaps trying again now the incident is further in the past might help?

[trekker]

Trekker, just wondered how you dealt with this parent in the end?

We are going through something similar at the moment (although our child isn't SEN) but the parents of the child who has been hit (it was the 1st time for this particular child) want him excluded and won't bring their child back until we do so

 

 

well I made it clear to the children in the group that any hitting is unkind and at preschool we always use kind hands and words ...talked about how if you are hit, then hit back, you may get hit again and so on...in our case when children did get hurt we supported them and also kept on explaining to them all that the child in question needed to be helped to learn to say what they wanted and that because they were still learning how to use their words they sometimes found it hard to tell people if they really wanted something and this was why sometimes they hurt - that they were not 'Naughty' but simply needed our help to talk about / show what they wanted...many children would explain this to parents too!

I also supported all children with sharing - as it was often a tug of war situation that then resulted in a slap.

All children were encouraged to support child and show them how to say please, thank you (signing etc)

 

With the parent I pointed out that if she encouraged her child to hit it was likely to make things worse (as above) and that I could not accept her child hitting any more than any other child - I think I did point out that if it was not okay for the other child to hit then it was not okay for her child either and to encourage them to do so would only make it harder for us in making it clear that hitting is not allowed -She did struggle to argue against that one... all parents of children being hurt were reassured that all children are told / dealt with according to policy if they do (discussion, explaining / exploring what they needed to do instead) and that we would support any child who had difficulties - it was not our policy to exclude.

 

Didnt solve everything (child still at setting and still have parents who are less than impressed at what action we can take) but at least that particular parent didnt push the hitting thing (within our earshot!) anymore.

 

Several children were taken out as a result and we had one start last week and give 4 wks notice this week because of the problem and wont be back in.

...if the shoe was on the other foot as it were - if it was their child I think they'd appreciate staff who supported their child in spite of the difficulties - they'd probably expect it! ...but since its not they just cant and thats something we just have to accept I guess. Other parents dont see the progress that has been made and that the strategies are gradually working...they just think staff let children get away with it...so not true.

I think the only thing you can do is to show / tell what you have in place to deal with the behaviour...explain why the child got hurt (eg if its fighting over toys or child wanting to express something they are unable to)... and what you did to support their child...if they choose to move on after yourve reasured them as much as you can then you have to accept that too.

 

Ive tried explaining that at home parents have maybe a couple children under the age of 4 and no doubt they fight / argue quite a lot...in preschool that is often multiplied quite a bit so there is a higher probablitly that at some point all children will become frustrated with another and the first thing children do is often push, snatch, shove jsut like at home...its not bullying, its normal childhood behaviour....every child does it..some just take a little longer to understand that there are other ways - and we are there to help them learn that - it just takes time. However not all parents appreciate that ...to them it sounds just like excuses.

 

I wish you lots of luck!

[thumperrabbit]

Wow that's certainly tricky situation, but surely the parent can't expect them to go through their whole school life without ever having been hurt by another child. Most children, particularly boys, get hit at some point by another child during their school life. It's just children being children and learning their boundaries!

 

Is this a child who hits often? Perhaps you could talk to the parents and let them know how you are dealing with it and why it isn't appropriate to exclude the child. I'm sure you've already tried this, but perhaps trying again now the incident is further in the past might help?

 

Unfortunately at the moment, I can't get them to answer the telephone! But i will keep trying

 

Trekker - thank you so much for your detailed response I will be discussing your points with the staff.

 

Doesn't matter how much Behaviour training we go on, we never seem to get taught the point about how to deal with the parents of the children, it's almost as if because we are adults we have to just deal with it, however it's very traumatic for them .. and us