Sorry Ratios Again!

[suebear]

Hi, I know ratios have been discussed a lot on here but I’m a little bit confused with something. I am about to start work in a playgroup/preschool for children aged 2 – 4 years in a village hall. Now the direct.gov website states that the child: staff ratio for a pre school is

 

Preschool playgroups - provide places for between 10 and 20 children - there must be one adult for every eight children and at least half of the adults must be qualified leaders or assistants

 

And this is what our preschool currently operates at, but the EYFS states that

 

For children aged three and over in any registered early years provision between the hours of 8 am and 4 pm, where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, Early Years Professional Status or another suitable level 6 qualification (which is full and relevant, and defined by CWDC) is working directly with the children, the following requirements apply:

■■ there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children;

■■ at least one other member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification (as defined by CWDC).

 

Also what does the EYFS mean when it says , where a person with Qualified Teacher Status is working directly with the children - does that mean there should always be a level 6 with the children or is it an option to have a teacher there?

 

I hope my question makes sense as we have some 3 and 4 year olds there every day and the answer could change all of our current staffing!

 

Thank you for your help x

[redjayne]

My understanding is that the 1:13 ratio only applies when the level 6 is working directly with the children , and when they are in the building, so if they only work 9-3 and you are open 8-6 the normal ratios apply outside of the 9-3 slot. It is not sufficient to just have the level 6 on the payroll which I am concerned may happen with some settings, and also you have to remember that your two year olds are in a 1:4 ratio until they reach thier third birthday when it reverts to 1:8. Expect you are even more confused now !

[redjayne]

And in response to the qualified teacher question , that is not compulsary for pre-schools/nurseries until 2015 , it's only childrens centres who have to have a level 6 by the end of this year ( of course it all may change depending on who gets in to Government!)

[suebear]

Currently they don't employ a teacher at all, but I'm an early years teacher and will start full time next month. I'm not sure how many 2 year olds there are, but know the staff has one Level 2 person and 2 others are unqualified but with lots of experience. Am a little scared by it all to be honest.

[Guest]

Yes we count two and three year olds together until they are eligible for funding. And in general the information given by the direct gov website is not entirely accurate. You should follow the guidance and requirements of the EYFS and also note that pre-schools/playgroups/call them what you will can be registered for more than 20 children and are more likely than not staffed by dedicated and hard working professional staff who are not simply grandmothers and mothers as the same site used to state.

 

For those who saw the previous thread about their definitions - is this the new improved version do you know?

[suebear]

Thank you all very much for your comments it's really helpful.

We'll meet the ratios for 2 year olds as we're only a small play group and would have a 1:4 ratio, I'd be a level 3+ and the level 2 person could work with one of the unqualified staff.

[Guest]

Sorry forget my last question - I see they haven't made any changes yet!

 

suebear will it just be you and the three staff you mention? My understanding that there should be a level 3 staff member there even if you are employed as a teacher and not a level 3 person. And if you do have two year olds you need to have a ratio of 1:4 for them. It does get very confusing sometimes though.

[suebear]

Yes it's just the staff I mentioned. I thought there had to be a level 3 there too at first, but if you have me as a member of staff (ignoring the teaching bit), I'd hold a full and relevant level 3(+), half the other staff would have a level 2 (if 12 or less children) and we'd match 1:8 for the 3 year olds (or 1:4 depending on the age - I think!) and the same complications everyone else has when you mix the age groups together and not every child comes on the same day.

 

I hope this makes sense I confused myself writing this!!!!

[Inge]

and can I just add to the confusion

 

he need QTS/ EYPS for settings in 2015 is only for those who open for more than 4 hrs ,

 

so if a half day (sessional) setting it is not (yet) needed.. which is why any under 4 hrs cannot get funding for eyps..

 

Inge

[redjayne]

Thats an interesting piece of info Inga - wasn't aware of that .

 

The question about whether you need a level 3 as well as yourself as a level 3+ is yes - according to the guidance there has to be another level 3 member of staff as well as you - what would happen if you were off sick or on holiday for instance ? Sounds as if your level 2 might need persuading to progress or that you will need to look at employing somebody else ?