Counting In 2s - Spotting Patterns

[emmajess]

Now, this is a very simple question and I should know the answer! But I wonder if you could help me spot a relevant profile scale point for this quick obs.

We were reading a non-fiction book and choosing which page we'd like to start on, reading the different headings, and one little boy called out 'It's counting in 2s!' We hadn't looked at the numbers of the contents at that point, he'd just been looking at them himself, and we hadn't got into counting in 2s yet either (although obviously we followed up this observation in our planning and counting in 2s took off in a big way with most of the class, more than usual, interestingly, because it came from a child's interest).

The contents page started on page 4, rather than 2 and he spotted a pattern that we hadn't looked at previously, so I thought it was great! He also continued the pattern - I asked him what the next number would be if there was another pair of pages in the book and he could tell me that after 32 would come 34.

 

I just wondered if there was a profile point that it linked with? It's obviously part of NLC, but couldn't put it anywhere specifically. Wasn't sure if it could be part of a collection of evidence towards point 9?

[Guest]

I would say that it is part of evidence for point 9, as it is something that year 1 children are expected to do during the year. I would think it could also be part of point 8- solving problems using numbers.

[Susan]

I would agree that its problem solving and if appropriate evidence to point 9.

[Guest]

yeah - I think I would use it as evidence for problem solving and possibly use it as part of my evidence gathering to show evidence of point 9 at some point.

[emmajess]

So you could put it as part of NLC point 8: 'Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems', even though he's not directly solving any practical problem here, rather observing and commenting on a pattern? The examples in the handbook are much more hands- on and , er, practical Am I being too literal about problem solving? If you would say this is problem solving, even though it doesn't begin with a problem that needs to be solved, how does your understanding of a definition of problem solving / this point work that it includes something like this? Would you be able to expand upon your understanding of the definition for me - it would be very interesting and helpful!

[HappyMaz]

So you could put it as part of NLC point 8: 'Uses developing mathematical ideas and methods to solve practical problems', even though he's not directly solving any practical problem here,

Well I was wondering what problem he was solving, but this is one I struggle to 'see' if you know what I mean. I'm watching this with interest!

 

Maz

[Susan]

I think that this is typical of the profile points in that when you actually start analysing them, they are all either so " easy" that everyone can do it anyway or you are looking for dimensions that do not exist.

Your little lad was not actually practically solving a problem at the time of your observation but was using quite advanced mathematical skills that show he is capable of problem solving that maybe others in your cohort arent? So, this info about him becomes part of your knowledge of the child and assuming that he is quite skilled generally makes your evidence bank for point 9.

 

At least that would be my interpretation.

 

Children dont always follow the pattern laid out on the paper, which is why the stepping stones were only ever intended as a possible route to goal attainment and why when everyone started looking for them in order as described in the original framework they document became flawed and morphed into the EYFS that we have today with developmental cues.

[emmajess]

I absolutely know what you mean, Susan. It seems to me that this obs suggests / implies that he can use developing........to solve practical problems, but wasn't really sure if it could be used as evidence towards point 8. I felt it was definitely part of an accumulation of evidence towards point 9, which he is steadily stacking up, suggesting point 8 should be in place already. Will keep close eye on him to spot him solving practical problems!

As an aside, I wondered if people might be able to share some of their evidence for point 8 for the 3 PSRN scales - I love seeing people's real life examples!

[Marion]

I absolutely know what you mean, Susan. It seems to me that this obs suggests / implies that he can use developing........to solve practical problems, but wasn't really sure if it could be used as evidence towards point 8. I felt it was definitely part of an accumulation of evidence towards point 9, which he is steadily stacking up, suggesting point 8 should be in place already. Will keep close eye on him to spot him solving practical problems!

As an aside, I wondered if people might be able to share some of their evidence for point 8 for the 3 PSRN scales - I love seeing people's real life examples!

 

 

Have you seen these

 

http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/61...008_final_1.pdf

 

http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/81...008_final_2.pdf

[mundia]

Based on only the example given by emmajess, I would consider evidence of SSM 4 talks about recognizes and recreates pattern. I think that is what the child is doing here. Obvioulsy Emma, you know the child well and know what else he can do/does in every day activities.

 

The child was able to indicate what comes next in the sequence, so I would think this as evidence for point 8, the problem being ..what comes next? He is solving that problem from his developing mathematical knowledge.

 

However, I would personally not consider it on its own as evidence of point 9, as obviously all other points need to be there anyway in order to achieve the 9. But also just because a child can recognize a pattern of 2 4 6 as going up in twos doesn't actually mean they can count objects, write numbers or 'use' them as needed for point 9. It may be part of other evidence to show recognition to 20 and also ordering to 20.. I think this highlights that the whole business of the EYFSP is about gathering all the evidence and not about isolated incidences. I would use this information to build a bigger picture before I even considered point 9. (emma I'm sure you have done this already).

 

Its a really interesting discussion isn't it, and it does who that we all see something different.

[emmajess]

However, I would personally not consider it on its own as evidence of point 9, as obviously all other points need to be there anyway in order to achieve the 9. But also just because a child can recognize a pattern of 2 4 6 as going up in twos doesn't actually mean they can count objects, write numbers or 'use' them as needed for point 9. It may be part of other evidence to show recognition to 20 and also ordering to 20.. I think this highlights that the whole business of the EYFSP is about gathering all the evidence and not about isolated incidences. I would use this information to build a bigger picture before I even considered point 9. (emma I'm sure you have done this already).

 

Yep, definitely, Mundia!

From my other knowledge of this child this observation supports other evidence that demonstrates his confidence with and understanding of the number systeme. Because I know the little boy and his thinking and ability I can see this as being an example of his high ability, but you're right, on its own SSM 4 would be perhaps the only one it would cover. That's why I had to ask, as there didn't seem to be a point that showed the level of understanding I felt he was showing, it didn't seem to be solving a problem.

It is really interesting as a discussion!

[Guest]

I would definitely say that the fact that he could tell you what came next would demonstrate evidence for point 8 in the counting/ordering numbers strand of PSRN (can't remember exactly what it's called!) and possibly the SSM strand point 8 from a pattern making point of view. As someone else said the problem is "what comes next?" and he was able to answer that. Problems don't always have to be wrapped up in an elaborate real life/physical concept such as going to the shops or doing something in the water tray which I think people can get hung up on sometimes.