Change Of Ownership

[anju]

hi,

 

I am hoping to take on the pre-school I manage (it's currently committee run) as a private business from the end of February which is when I hope to have the lease agreed. As we are already operating and I am already the Manager but will become the owner and registered person too, do I need to give a certain amount of notice to OFSTED of the change? or (I hope!!!) is it a case of filling in some forms and applying but carrying on operating in the meantime? I intend keeping on the same staff and using the same premises but replacing the building we are in in 6 month's time; I realise I will have to contact OFSTED again regarding the new building.

 

I am starting to panic as it looked like the whole thing was going pear shaped until this week and now it seems quite likely to go ahead and I haven't even contacted OFSTED.

 

We are due an inspection anyway...

 

thanks,

 

Anju

[Guest]

I'm going through something similar, although ours is one committe run setting taking over another.

 

I have been told 3 different things by Ofsted (what a surprise!) but the upshot is that I have had to apply for a new registration (download EY0 form from Osted website) as it is a complete change of registered person, not just a change of personnel on the same committee.

 

I did phone them in a bit of a panic though as the form says they aim to get the new registration through in 25 weeks and we are taking over quicker than that. They said to just put on the form that we are not changing manager, staff and premises and that we will run under the same terms as the current registration until the new one is granted.

 

They also said not to bother sending in a new EY2 and health declaration form if the previous ones had been done within the last 3 years (but I bet a pound to a penny that they ask for one once I've sent the form in).

 

RR

Edited February 2, 2010 by Guest

[Guest]

Hi - I have done this 2 years ago and there is a bit more to it !It sounds scarey but its not too bad -honest!!

 

You will probably need a bit of guidance to be on the safe side - are you a member of the PlA as they will advise you.

 

Basically - ofsted will come and visit you as it is treated as a whole new registration - you will need to pay registration fee too ! you submit forms and they will contact you ref a visit , you will get suitable person interview , medical declaration needs to submitted and you will need to nominate referees which they will call for references. They will want to see policies ect at the visit.

 

The staff will need to be served a Toupe letter from the committee giving them notice and you need to respond to this by another letter as they will transfer to your employment under toupe arrangements ( look at the acas site for toupe agreements - proforma letters on there). The committee will also need to wind up there pay and issue P45 paperwork then your payroll person or whoever deals with your pay will register them under you s employer with inland revenue .

 

You will also need to set up bank accounts for your new business and register your business with companies house as you need a business number from company house to get a business bank account .

 

You will need to issue your staff with new contracts as their new employer too.

 

The committee will also have to deal with the pre-schools assets - they will need to have equipment valued by an impartial 3rd party ( usually pla) and they need to look carefully at their constitution as if there is any cash left after they pay off any outstanding bills and wages their constitution will tell them what they should do with monies left over - ours said it had to be donated to a similar charity ie another charity registered pre-school as the charities commission will want to know what happened to any money / assests when they file their closing figures and close their charity status down .

 

A lot to think about , but honestly its easy peasy once your ofsted thing is in place its all good and worth it in the end - good luck Dizzz

[anju]

thanks for the replies RR and Dizzy.

 

dizzy, were you the manager before you took over the business? and were you able to continue to operate whilst ofsted did their checks? what I mean is, did you officially take over the business BEFORE ofsted had done all their checks, visted, suitable person interview, got references back etc. or did the takeover have to wait until ofsted had done all that, just like a new setting starting up?

 

thanks very much,,

 

A

[Guest]

Hello - no I wasn't the manager , I co own the business with the person who was the manager at the time . It was a bit different as we opened in the September as a 'new' company ( so had a bit of lea way over holiday ) but I would say we started the take over process at about Easter time and I remember it was June when we had our visit from Ofsted - I don't think you can take over before the checks as your insurance will want you to be the reg owner and person in charge etc. You could approach your committee to stay on and you do all the running and they are there in name only sort of thing till all the paperwork is done - there is quite a lot to do - all frustrating stuff thats bits of paper that you must have !!!!! any other help -please reply back , happy to help Dizz

[Guest]

Gosh that sounds complicated.

 

Anju can I ask why you are taking over? I do feel quite strongly that our preschool would work more efficiently if it was run as more of a business, but to be honest I don't see how that could ever be financially viable. The amount of hours I do for free (I'm chair) could never be done paid if we wanted to stay afloat. We rely a lot on staff good will to run, e.g. with doing bits and pieces outside of session time but not claiming every last bit as overtime.

 

Personally I don't think the funding amount is enough to cover the running of our preschool, perhaps you are doing something differently? I'd love to hear. (We do have high staffing costs and I wouldn't want to run with a ratio of less than 1 member of staff to 5/6 children.)

[anju]

thanks for the replies.

 

Suzie because I will be replacing a dilapidated building at my own cost, the rent will be very low and there is a rent free period proposed in the lease of 2 years. I get the graduate leader fund as I am an EYP. We do have a staffin ratio of 1 to 5/6 like you do. I won't be making money if you allowed for the huge capital investment but over the long term I hope to get the capital back (not with the interest the money would have earned in a savings account but hey, it's not all about money!!) and of course it will provide me with a continued income as I will work full time as the Manager. I do loads in my own time anyway and my committee do virtually nothing - I am not being rude, this is just how it has always been so I won't be spending much more time than I do now. If the single funding formula comes in, we will get a much better hourly rate as we are in an area of high deprivation so that would help as well. do feel free to pm me if you have more questions.

 

I rang Ofsted today and Dizzy it was pretty much verbatim what you said! I have been really fed up about it all afternoon as I thought the whole plan would be scuppered as I need to take over sooner than Ofsted will guarantee all is complete.

 

I am now thinking more about what the person actually said and maybe I misinterpreted it. I think perhaps I can go ahead as long as the committee agree to keep on being the registered person and hold overall responsibility until the checks come through from Ofsted, which is what you suggested Dizzy. I am pretty sure they would agree to do this. in the meantime I can set up the business side and get the lease signed which has been by far the most difficult aspect.

 

i will keep you posted,

 

thanks again,

 

anju

Edited February 3, 2010 by anju

[Pimms o'clock?]

Just thought I would add a little about keeping staff on, it is actually TUPE regulations that you have to follow and info on what you have to do is on the ACAS site as well as Business Link site.

 

You also have to satisfy Charity Law and this is best done with support from a PLA representative or with guidance to the law from the Charity Commission, in effect the proceeds from the sale to you have to be donated to another charity with similar vision and values.

 

Good luck, I think it was easier for me because I bought my nursery from a private individual.

 

Oh and looking at my "ticker", below, the visit to Pen Green was really wonderful, how I wish I could provide anything like the area they have for outdoor play! It was "wow"

Edited February 3, 2010 by BMG

[Guest]

Im laughing out loud - I think I just told you to give your staff one of those funny little wigs vain men wear - toupe !!!!

 

On the subject of charity status your current committe cannot unfortunately just decide to handover to you they have to call an Exraordinary General Meeting (EGM) and all members ( all pre-school parents ) have to be invited individually in writing. You are unfortunately not allowed to go (unless you are a parent too) . At the meeting the chair will invite opinions on a buy out - I think they vote and then they will inform you of the outcome . Im saying this when you might have already done all this !

 

Good Luck , its worth it ! Dizzy

[anju]

thanks, Dizzy, that side is all agreed so it's just OFsted left...

 

thanks for your positivity!

 

thanks BMG, the TUPE (rather than toupe!) stuff is done too,

 

A

[Pimms o'clock?]

Your welcome.

 

Good luck with your future plans. Even though I work all the hours god sends, I keep reminding myself that "I am in control of my own destiny"; it sounds much better than thinking "what have I let myself in for".

[Guest]

Good luck, you are very brave and dedicated to go down this route.

 

The whole committee set up to my mind rarely seems to work, and I'm saying that as a dedicated chair of committee!!!

[Guest]

Suzie I totally agree. You are so dependant on having a decent committee and when they change it is the leader who is left trying to hold things together.

Our chair is fantastic but other parents just treat it like a bit of a hobby and have no urgency about them or educational/EYFS understanding.

 

These pre-schools are totally run on goodwill and unpaid over time and i think it's pretty scandalous really.

[Guest]

I am the Chair person for a small community committee run pre-school! I have been involved with the setting for nearly 5 years now - we are struggling to get committee to meetings and they just are not interested ! I want to run the group myself and not be answerable to committee, how do I do this - I've looked at incorporating but not appropriate CIC seems very complicated but would want to keep Charity running - any ideas?????

[anju]

Hi Lanie,

 

I looked at CIC like you but felt it was too complicated and I didn't want to have trustees as I felt we would have the same issues as when committee run, I.e. great difficulty finding suitable people to be trustees. So I set up a private company which was easy and cheap (where I am sole director) and did it from that base. In terms of the 'social enterprise' side, things like providing a good service, treating staff well, not making a profit etc, I do all that anyway - I control the finances and make the business decisions on my own so I feel happy that my organisation is providing a good service to the local community.

 

[Cait]

Anju, what did you do to start your own company? We're you already running a preschool? I'd really like to lose the committee status as I was led down the garden path initially with that. I set up my own preschool and after running wel for a couple of years I was told I had to be a member of the PSLA and adopt their constitution and be registered as a charity. It was only after I had done all that that I found out that I'd sold myself down the river a bit. So now I make sure that all the toys, books and equipment is my own, and anything bought with a grant is itemised as belonging to preschool.

[anju]

Hi Cait,

 

I set up the company with help from my accountants (who I found in order to help with the whole business - they still do my accounts and payroll) - you can do it yourself, I think you start at Companies House. It only cost about £140 to get the accountants to do it though. Mine is a Private Limited Company and I am the only Director. This was advised by my accountants and solicitors in my situation and it has proved to be good advice (this was all over 2 years ago). There is some information on Business Link http://online.busine...type=HUBCHASSIS

 

 

 

I was already running the Pre-school as the Manager.

 

Sounds like you were given bad advice

 

Everything I buy for the pre-school I buy from the company bank account using a debit visa card, then it's really easy to keep track of it all - I have online banking.

 

Do shout if I can help with anything,

 

A

Edited August 3, 2012 by anju

[Jeany]

Anju were you a registered charity before you changed hands? If so did the Charity commission agree to the committee handing all equipment etc to you or did you have to buy it from the charity?

 

Thanks

[anju]

Hi, no we weren't a registered charity and we had our own constitution which was similar to the PLA one. The committee agreed to me keeping the equipment as I was continuing a similar (identical) enterprise but also (more importantly I guess) I was investing a considerable amount of money in a new building which was much needed - our old prefab was falling apart.