Guest Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 please could someone clarify this for me. I did some training today, as I am CC teacher, for childminders and there was nearly a stand up row between two of them regarding provision for children who come to you after school, but who are not yet 5 and as such are still following EYFS development matters. One childminder was adamant that there is no longer a requirement to plan for these children's learning and development, only their safety and welfare, as they have been at school all day, but another childminder was equally adamant that because they are under 5 and you are their provider for 2.5 hours a day- 3:30-6p.m., then you still have to consider their learning and development and complete a learning journey. I admitted that I didn't know, but said I would find out- please advise! Thanks for any replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 It's not about offering a 'double curriculum' as such. The full EYFS provision is dealt with at the main place of learning (school or preschool/playgroup/childminder). What happens at after school clubs/childminders etc should complement what's happening in the day but doesn't involve completing a separate learning journey. However, if everyone agrees it could be useful for the daytime provider to engage with the after school provider to contriubute to the learning journey (just as a parent would be involved). Our after school club has been Ofsted post EYFS and all we were asked to demonstrate was that our continuous provision was linked to the 6 areas of learning and that we were linking observation to planning. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 i work with an after school club and yes providers do have to do some sort of learning journey/observations for the children in their care with eyfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Is that 2 different points of view? Looks like its down to interpretation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hali Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 maybe its down to LAs again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Have a look at this document from Ofsted that clarifies the requirements of play based provision. Pages 6 (2/3 way down), 7 & 8 cover the issue of just how much planning and assessment is required. The most pertinent point to me is on page 7 and it says that: "There is no legal requirement for playworkers to plan and assess children’s progress across all six areas of learning. All providers must meet the welfare requirement to plan and assess, to meet children’s individual needs, but we do not expect this to be a heavy task. Planning and observation should match the length of time children are in the provision, and should work with provision made elsewhere rather than cover the full Early Years Foundation Stage. Playworkers do not necessarily need to write down their observations; however, this can be helpful where there are a number of adults arranging play across a day or a week; or to share the information with parents and other providers delivering the Early Years Foundation Stage. Unless children attend wrap around care at a particular school on a daily basis we expect most of the partnership work to be with the children’s parents rather than with other Early Years Foundation Stage providers." Regulating_play_based_provision.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlettangel Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The afterschool club I manage has also been OFSTED'd since the EYFS came into being, and we did fine...... I think the staff have to show an awareness of the EYFS, and show that the activities going on cover the 6 areas of learning.......... I am lucky in that 3 of my staff in after school spend time in the private nursery also, and they are very aware of the EYFS. HOWEVER on our paperwork we have written, something along the lines of........... whilst the staff are aware of the 6 areas of learning for the children under 6, the children access what they want at the end of a school day. That isn't it, but the general feeling is the same!!!!!! After a long day some may want to sit and watch a DVD some may want to join in with the main activity for the night, others well their needs might be different again! We have taken photographs for the children to put in their learning diaries (journals) but not often. I think it is another of those areas where you interpret to suit your children's needs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 The Statutory Framework (p9 1.13) says: "All providers have an equally important role to play in children's early years experiences - for example, a childminder who sees a child for 2 hours a day should consider what that child's individual needs are at that time of day, and ensure that the provision they deliver is both appropriate to those needs and complementary to the education and care provided in the child's other setting(s)" On training courses we've always been told that allowing the children to chooses their own activity, or involvement level in an activity, is fine. If they choose to come in and sit and read, or ask to watch a tv/dvd or use the computer it's meeting their individual needs! Usually, after school we've had a chat about their day and what they've done. I've offered a related activity if available but left it to the child to choose. Ofsted were quite happy with this. Nona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hi, I was reading this thread as one of the girls in my YR class goes to an out of school club in the village so was looking for ideas about communication between settings. I get on well with the leader of the out of school club and we share the same point of view: why on earth should out of school clubs have to plan anything for children after they have been at school all day?!!!!! Obviously they would need to know what fun things they will have out, etc, but surely the purpose is a safe and happy and friendly place to be with fun stuff to do - not to learn a whole load more things when quite frankly most children (espically of 4 years old) just need to 'flop' after school!!!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!! (That's to the whole stupid EYFS thing for out of school clubs nut to anyone here!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 purplemagic!!! I think you must have been on one of the same EYFS training courses as me!!! This raised everyones blood pressure The trainers seemed to think that planned activities "should" be available but most school age children, as you rightly say, want to switch off and relax. If they were going straight home they'd most likely have a quick drink and snack, and slump in front of the t.v. Why should that be any different for children who use after school clubs? At the Ofsted Outstanding Provider conference this issue was debated round our table. The Inspector who sat with us said she'd have no problem with this approach. It would meet the child's individual needs, which is the priority. If they do participate in activities they can, if they wish, take photos, pictures or pieces of work into school to share with their teacher if they want. It really depends then on the teacher as to whether it makes it into the Learning Journey or not! We've been advised not to do separate ones for after school children as it's "overload" Hope it helps to realise you're not the only one confused by this grey area Nona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thanks Nona!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What a shame that we seem to have such a low expectation for children's energy and enthusiasm levels after school now. When I was a child ( , increasingly long ago but no comments on my age please! ) we didn't have the option of 'slumping' in front of the TV after school. In fact, we couldn't wait to get home, get changed and go out to play with all our friends. I don't remember feeling 'too tired' and no one had to bribe me to do it, so it must've been fun! Mum would have to come outside and yell several times to get us to come back in for tea and then we were always clamouring to be allowed out for a short while afterwards in the summer when the evenings were lighter. Perhaps I am a bad mother, but TV is banned in our house until a bit later in the evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 What I meant was that children should be able to do things (what they want, within reason of course!) like playing outside, painting, dressing up, reading, whatever, because it is fun/social/relaxing not because it 'teaches them something'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 It really comes down to knowing your children and meeting their individual needs, doesn't it? Some of my after school children need a physical activity to let off steam, one wants time to catch up on what her 17mth old sister has been doing during the day with me, the 7 year old with ADHD will have had a short burst of activity on the school run ( a brisk walk, a few games of hopscotch and a run round the playground) but by the the time we get home her medication is wearing off, her concentration is nil and the only thing that soothes her is t.v!! I hope I'm meeting all their needs by seeing them, and their needs/wants, as unique! I honestly think it's one of those areas that depends on how you "sell" yourself to Ofsted if they ask Nona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 please could someone clarify this for me. I did some training today, as I am CC teacher, for childminders and there was nearly a stand up row between two of them regarding provision for children who come to you after school, but who are not yet 5 and as such are still following EYFS development matters. One childminder was adamant that there is no longer a requirement to plan for these children's learning and development, only their safety and welfare, as they have been at school all day, but another childminder was equally adamant that because they are under 5 and you are their provider for 2.5 hours a day- 3:30-6p.m., then you still have to consider their learning and development and complete a learning journey. I admitted that I didn't know, but said I would find out- please advise! Thanks for any replies. page 17 2.22 Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage " The EYFS profile must be completed by the provider where the child spends the majority of time between 8 am and 6 pm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jenpercy Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 page 17 2.22 Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage " The EYFS profile must be completed by the provider where the child spends the majority of time between 8 am and 6 pm". let me tell you from one who failed their OFSTED last time, that you do have to plan for their next steps. Only thing is that as we are free choice for all activities, the children don't HAVE to do what we have planned. And let me tell you, in some cases we would be plannnig things for a particular child that we KNOW they aren't going to do if we planned rigorously for all 6 areas.confirmed by our Inspector, Talk about Alice in Wonderland. As a matter of fact later guidance does say that we needn't do all 6 areas, or rather that we can concentrate on PSE, Physical, CommunicatioN (LaNGUAGE) and Creative, (I THINK), although the document has disappeared from the website. Just let us get through when they turn up, eventually and then we won't need to worry again for 3 years, by which time they will have seen sense and we won't have to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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